Damaged skin - Page 1

Tulla's skin is still a concern, her feet are still swollen and have a few blisters, they bleed extremely easily and are painful. The bare patchs of skin are black and it is very thin, if she bumps against something or scratchs with her toenails ( even tho they have been filed smooth) it tears the skin and bleeds. Is there something I can give her or use topically to help the skin heal? 
I have switched from the Aloedine to the Meditar shampoo because the aloedine was drying it out to much and making the itching worse. She is doing ifne with the Meditar. 
She is playful, loves her chews and tosses the knotted rope around, tries to play with the little red poodle ( he thinks she is to big lol) She will chew/pull her way out of a chainlink kennel in nothing flat and welded wire or hog/horse fencing is a walk in the park. She spends the majority of her time inside, partly because of the sunburn possibilities.

I have no experience with Demodec mange. I have searched and searched the internet for information but no where have I found a description that includes blisters. Some of the blisters on the top of her feet and between her toes are the size of a pencil eraser. Is this common? I am used to seeing sarcoptic with small fluid filled blisters on the stomachs of puppies. Something else I noticed while blow drying her today, the edges of the black skin are white, not pink like healthy skin, kind of a mottled black and white in some areas. The damaged skin is not in a random pattern but is more circular?? The thought occured to me while I was blow drying her that it sure looked an aweful lot like ringworm that had started to heal.....Does this sound familiar to anyone?

 

Shandra, I just heard on another board about a dog that suddenly developed swollen, bloody feet. The vet found she had demodex, and THREE different types of bacteria, secondary to the demodex!!  The treatment was a really deep cleaning under anesthetic, and skin scrapings so the wounds could be cultured to see what antibiotics might be effective against the bacteria.

Fred Lanting was asked for suggestions, and recommended the following:

Demodex is an inherited immune-system weakness... in some dogs it shows up only as demodex sensitivity, in other dogs, in a variety of other ailments.

Double-check to make sure she is not on new carpet (actually the carpet BACKING or cushion would be a possible irritant), and that you do not have new panelling in her kennel room (adhesive in the pressed-board, or on back of the panels could be a possibility). If you do not have her on weed-control-treated grass or a lawn treated for pests, I don't know what else to zero in on, re the footpad thinness.

Make sure you don't have fleas. Even an occasional flea bite can cause a hypersensitive dog to have skin reacions. Fleas breed in carpeting, not on dogs, so either get rid of carpeting or clean/disinfect/vacuum them frequently.
I hope you get over this problem. Generally, when a female pup passes through first estrus, it gets better, but estrus is especially taxing on a demodex dog, so she needs to be spayed as soon as you determine that you are going to keep her and that her major problems have subsided enough to undergo the stress of surgery.

Fred
 

I know you've likely spent a fortune on this poor dog so far, but I would strongly recommend taking her back to the vet, and getting further treatment. From the sound of it, the problem may be exactly what was wrong with the dog I mentioned above. You can keep on treating her with washes and shampoos and chemicals, but they will not kill the bacteria that are causing the problem. (And eventually, you'll have spent as much money as if you'd taken her to the vet...)

Good luck with her!

The world needs more people like you... 

Edited to add: certain bacteria can cause fluid-filled blisters or pustules.

Would Hibiscrub kill the bacteria?


I used it on my friends Golden R, who had probs with some sort of grass mite.  She'd chewed her feet to bits and what fur she had left on her paws, was stained a brownish / redish colour,  Hibiscrub did the trick in no time. 

Sandra, please see a board cert. dermatologist. Please do not wait long, these things can get out of hand, the earlier your dog gets treated with the right meds, etc. the easier they clear up. I hope you dog gets better soon.
Always, C.

Thanks for the info. Yes I have spent a small fortune on her ( over 500 bones) and am in contact with the vet on a regular basis, either I call him with an update or he will call me.
I know it sounds weird but she actually seems to be losing more hair. Everytime I bathe her it comes off inhandfulls inthe damaged areas. She is about 3 days away from having a completely bald saddle. When I bathed her yesterday I felt new sores along her spine, up at her neck and at the base of her tail. The swelling in her feet have gone down tremendously. I am just wondering if I might should get a second opinion? Her face was solid small bumps, they itched but she didnt scrath or rub her face raw. I guess it is just because I have no experience with this particular illness, it is not presenting anything like sarcoptic. Her feet have all of the hair on them, like they havnt been chewed. The rest of her is healing nicely :)

Therese   

Shandra, the dog I mentioned above was also going to see a veterinary dermatologist at the nearest university. I second malshep's suggestion. The fact she's loosing even more hair is worrisome. It makes me wonder if the mange is spreading, despite all your efforts. 

And I suspect any bacteria in the feet will be too deeply buried in the skin for Hibiscrub to do much good. Demodex burrows right into the hair follicle, which is what makes it so hard to treat compared to other types of mange. As your vet before you spend money on it, would be my advice.

 

Shandra,
I rescued a Doberman many years ago that had demodex and was WAY worse than the pup in those pics. It took almost a year to get her cleared up and healthy again. Exact same feet problems. The dobie's feet were so badly damaged that her paw pads actually grew together when her feet finally healed. Watch her feet, especially between the toes and pads and around the nails. Try rubbing Tinactin and neosporin between the toes and pads, in all the creases, around the nails (pull the skin back and expose the cuticle) and then use dog boots. That's what I tried with the Dobie after the vet gave up on her feet and it worked. Cheap too. With the boots on, she couldn't lick or chew her feet and when she scratched, her nails couldn't do any damage.

Don't give up, you're winning!
The hair will fall out as the mites die off. It may grow back in strange, come back thinner or not at all. It just depends on how bad the damage is to the follicles. But you will start seeing peach fuzz coming in where the skin is healthy. It just takes time.
The lumps, bumps, blisters and sores are normal in a bad case. It's part of the secondary skin infections. Some of it is from the irritation of the dead/dying mites in the follicles under the skin. Same with the funky skin color, dead mites and the skin is healing. You could check at a feed store and pick up an antimicrobial/antifungal spray like the EQyss microtek and try that, it can't hurt. Wash or change her bedding often too. It won't have mites but it may harbor the bacteria and fungus.
Be patient, feed her well and she'll be ok.

.

 Has anyone ever been involved with a case were the demodex was not a normal immune system problem. I have heard of cases were shots were given to early and pups lose some hair and then with a little treatment grow it back in no time. The shots damage a still developing immune system when given to early but its nothing they cant recover from.

Smartguy,
Demodex is ALWAYS immune system related. The demodex mite is normally carried by dogs and only becomes a problem when the immune system is compromised in some way. The mites can then "take over" and cause mange. Generalized demodex (like the pup in the pics) is a real bear. Now that ivermectin is a standard treatment, it's much easier to kill off the mites, but the secondary skin infections pose a problem for a long time.

Localized demodex (confined mainly to the face or very small spots) is common in young puppies. Their immune system is still not fully developed so to speak. It can be brought out through stress or illness. I would imagine that a heavy vaccination schedule could do the same since the immune system is being taxed already. Illness related demodex in a pup would not concern me about a genetic problem. Nor would demodex in a pup that was severely malnourished or neglected. You have a good cause.

Most vets do not like to treat localized demodex in otherwise healthy pups since it usually clears on it's own. Personally speaking, if I had an overvaccinated but healthy puppy that developed demodex, I'd still suspect a genetically weak or immature immune system. I won't treat localized demodex in a pup, but prevent any secondary infection and let the immune system kick in and do it's job. If it doesn't clear up or progresses into generalized demodex then you know for sure that you're dealing with a genetic autoimmune problem and treatment is absolutey necessary.

For the "blisters" on her feet she needs to be on an oral antibiotic since this is probably staph or a secondary infection.  Are you giving her any oral ivermectin or putting Revolution on her?  I have seen Revolution applied every 2 weeks work quite nicely however if you are bathing her all the time this might not work so well.  Did the vet tell you to bathe her in these medicated shampoos?  I have never seen any shampoo work for demodex.  I would also check her thyroid.

MHO,

Vickie
www.PowerHausKennels.com