advice on teaching the ignorant. - Page 1

I have a friend who has a shepherd, she is now 11 months old, she is fairly well trained on leash, however wont listen off leash. When my friend goes to handle her feet, she squirms and squirms, and bites. She also jumps up on people, and I have been bitten a few times trying to push her off of me.  She will not come when called off leash, she pretends she does not know her name. She has bitten her handler a few times. Before this dog, my friend had a male dog who was put to sleep at 7 years old for attacking her mother. The vet tried to say it could have been a brain tumor, but seeing this happen in the female, I am starting to think it had NOTHING to do with that.

I just want to say first off I do not blame the dog here, in fact I know it is her owners problem. But her owner pretends like nothing is wrong, and that worries me, because when I bring it up, she quickly says that she does not have a problem. 

What also scares me is I have seen this dog give "the look" to her owner, like " get away from me or I am going to mess you up" and I have seen her owner back away from that situation. When this happened, the dog was not backed up in a corner, the dog was not being threatened, she was simply told "lets go outside" and when she blew off my friend, she went to grab her collar to lead her out.

She also says that her dog does not need to bestrict trained like other shepherds who are trained, because her dog is not in competition.

Does anyone know of a way to talk to someone so....dumb....and try to get the dog changed, or should I just throw my hands up and let the situation go, because I know without a doubt, if something is not done here, she will make #2 that will be PTS.

9 out of 10 people aren't worth the effort and it can only cost you something one way or another to be involved with such people.

From your post I would say that the dog is not trained at all and may have been allowed to aquire some very bad habits.

You can only speak your mind, you can't make them listen.

dont concern yourselve

You wrote:  "when I bring it up, she quickly says that she does not have a problem". A problem cannot be addressed or fixed if it is not acknowledged. Say your piece one more time and if she ignores it, tell her she is headed for serious trouble when the dog bites her or worse yet, someone else and ends up being put down. If the owner is this stupid, my advice to you is to simply distance yourself. Based on what you say, it clearly is the fault of the owner and this person should not own a dog, let a lone a GSD. She will reap what she sows. You want to be sure you are out of the way when that happens.

There is probably NOTHING you can do to bring some sense to this person. Sadly, some people just lack common sense. If a breeder sold her this dog, shame on them. By the way, she is not "ignorant" as you write, but plain stupid. There is a difference.

As our now missing Blitzen so aptly noted: "You can't fix stupid". This person seems to fit this maxim to a T.

 Refer her to a trainer maybe? 

two moons - the dog was suprisingly trained, i had seen her worked, and she was given a little certificate saying she passed the class. she just is not trained off leash. but i do agree with you on the fact that she was allowed to get away with these things, I know 100% that if my friend would have nipped it in the bud, it would have ended. dogs are like children, the things they do are to test the patience.

hodie - I dont fault the breeder, it is not the breeders job to prod there nose into peoples business and ask how there past dogs were trained. I dont think breeders who ship do ask questions like this, and I dont fault them for that because how can you know if someone is really telling you the truth. So I dont point the finger at the breeder, and the breeder has tried to tell her exactly what I am telling her.

"If a breeder sold her this dog, shame on them."

Hodie, why do you think it would be the breeder's fault? 

My point is that a good breeder will, in fact, ask about someones' experience training and handling GSDs. Especially where there is already a dog in the home, I require the potential buyer to demonstrate they have control of the dog. The main problem for sure is the owner, but I can guarantee you I would not have sold this person a dog. Would you?

The dog is obviously alpha here. If she won't listen, it can be hard. But this dog could really mess her up some day, and I think you should try to convince her to take it to a trainer who specializes in dogs behaving like that. If she tries to do it on her own, I don't doubt she will be bit. I also don't doubt she may get rid of the dog for being such a hassle, and if it went to the pound, a problem dog like that wouldn't last long.
-Emily.

I hate to say it, but I don't think there's a dog trainer anywhere that can help her with this dog.  Doesn't matter who she takes it to.  Want to know why I think this? 

Simply put, the dog is the pack leader in that house.  Until she admits that there is a problem, she can't fix it, and neither can anyone else.  A trainer who is naturally a pack leader will be able to train the dog perfectly, on and off leash, but as soon as the dog is in her possession again, she will go right back to her old tricks.  Why?  Because she has no leader.  She can't follow a follower. 

The problem is stupidity, but that's only part of it.  The rest is denial.  Someone who is determined that there is no need for a leader.  And the problem will escalate.  Perhaps you should just distance yourself, so that the person who gets hurt by this dog isn't you.  Maybe stay in touch with her by phone, try to talk some sense into her, but don't get in the way.  No sense getting bitten by the dog, when there's nothing you can do to help her.

What she needs is a Human trainer...someone who can teach her how to be the dog's pack leader.

Crys