why leave out tracking?

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by jletcher18 on 02 February 2009 - 04:02

i will admit that i have zero knowledge about psa, any of the ring sports, or knpv.    from my understanding they have no form of tracking associated with the titles they offer. why is that?    why do so many people knock schutzhund as not a real test of what a german shepherd is suppose to be, yet they very seldom, if ever, offer up a suggestion as to what is a "real" test?

is it just me, or are there more people out there that are sick and tired of hearing people who knock schutzhund from people who have never tried it, complain that they dont have a club near them, or that they dont like the clubs near them?

last, but certainly not least, what about those who say schutzhund is so easy they can get any dog from the pound and put a schutzhund title on it? please do it. and of course i want to see some type of documentation to prove it.

dont get me wrong,   i have the upmost respect for those that train their dogs in any field. i just dont get how one sport is better than the other.

john, going out at this late hour to work his dog again.

by wuzzup on 02 February 2009 - 04:02

A real dog should be able to track more then a straight track and a corner. Sars dogs are a good example of a good tracking dog. Just ask a schz. person if there dog can track a missing kid and more then half will tell you NO . They are not trained for that ! Ask a SARS trained dog to track a straight line and a corner and it can.Ask it to find a missing person and it can.

by yellowrose of Texas on 02 February 2009 - 04:02

John, I just mowed half an acre at 11:00p.m. and it is now raining...I had two of my germans following me behind the mower wanting to chase my tires....of course, I won...so they got their exercise...

Now it is pouring down cats and dogs. and alligators in Texas...temperature is 61* I have 6 outdoor high vapor , flourescent lights that light up almost my whole 3 acres..I prefer to work at night ..I sometimes loose the black kong at night because in the leaves it is impossible to fish it out or see it..

Tracking is my most favorite part of training..It tells a whole lot about a dog ..or a pup. Pups start very early and are very good at it..they have no fear and bail right in and follow that line and put the nose right into the dirt.. I feed my pup on the ground and my dogs also..

.Adrian Ledda told me to throw my bowls away..so I did. It is also keen to see a pup as he gets older air scent. Mine always tell me at night , that something or someone is nearby...as I have woods all around me with no neighbors..I get very attentive when I see nose go up and tail up and they start to the fence lines.

I just imprint the pups and love doing it for fun..

.I like to see the real instincts being used...all five senses get used when you track a dog...whether it be for a title or for fun...

YR

by VonIsengard on 02 February 2009 - 05:02

John, it wouldn't matter if you did every possible dog sport there is- there will always be someone around to be condescending. Usually because they can't, or don't , do what you can do. I know someone whose dog has multiple world records, she can do what no other dog in the world has ever done- and her youtube videos are full of complainers. Do what you love, do what you believe in, and those who are positive, open minded, and educated will respect you for it. And those who don't- are they really the type of people whose approval you care about anyway? For what it's worth, I enjoy reading your ideas and opinions. You are concise, informative, respectful, and intelligent.

As far as your tracking question, it's akin to asking why an AKC UD has no protection excercise. Simply different sports, for different people with different tastes. Why people chose to malign others for their choice of sport is beyond me. It's better than a dog being chained up in the backyard all day, thats for damn sure.

by wuzzup on 02 February 2009 - 05:02

All german shepherds should be able to track !! It's in there nature..What you track and how is up to you .

by Pharaoh on 02 February 2009 - 05:02

There are many people who have interest in the obedience and protection but not tracking. That requires a huge time investment. Obviously, competiton sport would not interest those people. But, they could be good contributing club members. It is a huge barrier.

The BH, the WH and the Sch A do not have tracking but that is the end of the no tracking road. If there were a B and a C for the II and III with no tracking, there would be more club level activity.

Michele

by Slamdunc on 02 February 2009 - 05:02

Wuzzup, a good schH good could easily be trained for SAR and could easily find lost people. SchH dogs are exactly what SAR groups want in a dog. High drive and the ability to track.. The reason some SchH people may tell you that there dog can't find a missing person is they haven't trained for it. I raised my current police K9 from a pup, I started him in SchH. He was a fantastic SchH tracking dog. Now with police tracking I don't do SchH anymore. I was in a foot pursuit with a suspect yesterday, the guy jumped a ditch, climbed a fence and ran into a trailer park where I lost sight of him. I cleared 1 backyard and moved to the next, clearing sheds and playhouses along the way. This wasn't tracking it was an area search. I moved between 2 trailers and noticed a foot print in the mud that wasn't mine. I pointed this foot print out to my dog and gave my track command, all I had was that 1 foot print. The dog immediately picked up the scent and started pulling pretty hard. THe dog tracked directly to a fence made a 90 degree right turn went about 200 yds and made a hard left turn. We tracked for about another 400 yards down a ditch line when the subject who was hiding broke cover and ran. At that point I sent my dog and we apprehended the subject; who was wanted for a probation violation for rape. I wouldn't have caught that guy without the dog. I know my dog is a better police tracking dog because of his SchH foundation. My dog will use ground disturbance or airscent depending which is stronger. When the dog switches to airscent I know I'm really close to the bad guy.

By the way John, I think SchH is an excellent test of a GSD. SchH tracking is not real world tracking, it is a test of the dogs tracking and working ability. In a real world situation dogs cast when tracking, mine casts very little because of his SchH foundation. SchH is a test and there fore must be graded. The dogs are graded on how well they follow the track, how deep their nose, corners, articles etc. SAR dogs and police dogs are graded on wether or not they find the person. It doesn't matter how the find them as long as they do. In some ways SchH tracking can be more tchallenging for a dog than a similar track laid for a police dog. The police dog can cut corners and is taught to find the fastest way to the end of the track.

Jim

by 4pack on 02 February 2009 - 05:02

I doubt PSA is trying to emulate Sch, so why try? Also PSA isn't a GSD breed test. My PO is that all 3 phases of Sch are OB.

by yellowrose of Texas on 02 February 2009 - 05:02

PharaoH: I would hope more clubs would take the attitude of helping people with german shepherds who want to learn obedience and protection work or want to track and do obedience, not protection work,,,and not really want to go title a dog,,,would help them find a place in the club . Most clubs and all the ones I visited or now visit, kick you to the curb if you dont want to go for the GOLD> I=

They state it is a waste of time to mess with people who dont want to go to the top...well,,,maybe this is what is wrong..
Maybe club members can help those that dont want to title but want to be instructed properly, in the proper techniques..

If they pay their dues and are eager to learn,,why kick them down when they only want to to the work and not go for the top..I think there are always plenty of members that do want to title..I just think this is a weak place in our schutzhund clubs. Yes , Usa is a sport, but why discriminate because some just want to work at the club level and not attain the titles..Yes, the trainers and helpers get mad because they say it is their body and their time that is wasted..

Then what is the answer>? send them to Petsmart for training.??? wrong training to other places and other people who dont know

YR superbowl Venting.......lol

by wuzzup on 02 February 2009 - 05:02

Slamdunk thats point.. The dog should be able to do it both and do it well.While schz is nose to the ground ,Sars is a combo factor.Yes schz could be used first ,but how many people take their dog to it's full potential? Sadly not many do .

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