REALITY CHECK-What is valued more??? OR, Has More Value! - Page 1

     Alright, we ALL have German Shepherds that we think are THE BEST...

Be it Show line, (my love), working line, Czech, DDR,Easty, Westy, SAR, SchH1,2,or 3

     We all live in an Era where child abductions, missing Alzeheimers patients, lost in the woods, avalanche, WHATEVER...

When push comes to shove," Keep my Dog a Working Dog",...

     Which DOG are we going to call on???

Say I spend 5 years, working my dog to run a laid out track. "Hooray.".He can sniff out a piece of BOLOGNA...He is ALL THAT ,PLUS, a bag of Chips.

     Now,  "AMBER ALERT".. missing child in my County,

CAN YOU CALL ON ME AND MY DOG?,  OR,  Do I say, "SORRY, my dog can't find a child," I was more worried about pinning a title on MY CHEST'(despite the fact the dog KNOWS NOTHING, of this title).

     Did I REALLY DO RIGHT BY THE BREED??? Or,,Could have done better?

Which is Better, MORE IMPORTANT, findind the LOST, or. The Title I KNOW I GOT????

 &n

I hear a very tiny violin somewhere off in the corner of my mind.

Why can't you simply ask, whats better tittles or a dog in the field?

How bout both.

If my child is lost out in the woods or in an urban environment what I want is a dog and a handler who both know the area, have worked the location, who have spent hours training to do thier job and who have the understanding of the area to anticipate where a child might have wandered and who are trained to work with other search and rescue professionals in order to locate my child quickly.

In short I want people and dogs who have trained to do the job.

If I am one of those people who has the time or the financial independence to devote myself to becoming such a professional then I want to be going to breeders who have worked their dogs to the breed requisite and who can speak to the individual strengths of genetic drive, natural talent and work ethic of the parents.   If this information comes from the breeder having trialed the dogs, worked with the dogs and knowing where their dogs strengths come from, then THAT's what is of value to me.

I do Schutzhund as a hobby.  I work full time to pay my bills, I am mother to a young child and a wife.  I would never have the time to devote to becoming a skilled SAR volunteer.  My dog, is genetically bred for it.  Her sire and many of his offspring ARE cadaver and SAR dogs. 

Does this mean I'm going to run out when I hear an Amber Alert and think my dog will do it?  No, we're not trained to but plenty of other people have gone to her sire to get dogs to train to do the job.

It's not the title, it's the work you put in to achieving the title that teaches you where your dog's strengths and weaknesses lie.  My dog will have her titles, because Schutzhund is my good time hobby but part (only part) of my decision NOT to breed her came from working with her, learning about her, seeing where her strengths were and coming to understand her weaknesses.

Maybe that's a perfect world I'm speaking of, that the title and the work go hand in hand.   But to me that's how I've always understood the philosophy of 'breed requisite titles'.  That you learn about the dog's strengths and weaknesses while working to achive the titles and from that knowledge, you pursue your breeding plans to continue to produce a dog that best represents the breed.

>>>Can you call on me and my dog?....Did I REALLY DO RIGHT BY THE BREED??? Or,,Could have done better?<<

I think that depends upon what your own personal goals are.  Footstep to footstep tracking is just easier to observe and "grade" the dog's performance for people who need to test the behavior in an efficient amount of time and area and move on to the next trials.   If you want to join SAR, then you would need to train in accepted SAR methods.  Are you training your dog for self satisfaction and a SchH title, or are you training your dog in the off chance that, someday, your dog/Kitkat team of two will be called to be search and rescue heroes?

My former broodbitch---now retired to be a family dog and service dog for a child with autism...SchH3, IPO3....was called upon to find her person...a child with Autism...after she wandered away from home (which is one of this child's issues).  The child's mother, who had tried unsuccessfully to find her daughter herself, took Fina outside on a leash and said "Find S___a".  The dog started tracking, nose to the ground in SchH style, over concrete, lawns and street, went up a porch to the house a few blocks away, scratched at the door...and the child was inside.

Fina's an Aly v. Vordersteinwald daughter, just thought I'd throw that in though it's totall irrelevant to the thread :-)

Veronica

I think it was relevant Veronica.

Alright, I'm going to climb on my soapbox. I'm not saying anyone should agree with me, this is just one of those topics that puts a little burr under my saddle. I believe that titles are a good thing if used as motivation or a goal for a person to train their dog in a certain way to reach a particular level of training whether it be obedience, protection, tracking, etc. HOWEVER, if if it were one of my children missing in the forest, I don't give one damn about how many or what titles the dogs going in to search for my child has. Titles do show that a particular dog has certain training/ abilities. But the bottom line is titles really become important when we want to breed the dog and justify asking an  arm and a leg for the pups. And, I'm probably going to step on some toes here, but  Bastin v. Kokeltal is a prime example. Bastin did not pass on what made him to the majority of his offspring. He threw pups with bad hips and elbows as well as low drive. You can say that it was dependent on the females but for the most part it didn't matter. Another ex. is Cas v. Svenshome. Great dog , couldn't pass along those traits. But niether one of those dogs had a problem getting the girls because of the titles. I gurantee you when the military is looking for potential K9's they could care less about titles. They want performance in the field. Titles are great, but if my butt's on the line I'll take a field proven dog any day.

Very well said RLHAR!

         Are you training your dog for self satisfaction and a SchH title, or are you training your dog in the off chance that, someday, your dog/Kitkat team of two will be called to be search and rescue heroes

by Two Moons on 13 January 2009 - 01:01	Two Moons Posts: 3063 Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 07:21 pm
I hear a very tiny violin somewhere off in the corner of my mind. Why can't you simply ask, whats better tittles or a dog in the field?

     This is what I'm talking about!!! Your dog should be able to do both. 

If you are training a working dog, (and there are SO MANY "TRAINERS " here for schH SPORT,)       "DOES SPORT" , 'AT it's FINEST LEVEL,' MEAN "The Dog Works?"                        IF  called upon to work, COULD YOUR DOG WORK????

     Does their schH3 title mean, they are, "Capable of the JOB they were trained for?

Will they be able to find the Missing person and Protect you from the person ,or persons that are putting you in harms way?

IF, that answer is not YES, " WHAT ARE YOU TRAINING SO HARD FOR?"

IF, that answer is not YES, " WHAT ARE YOU TRAINING SO HARD FOR?"

Fun.

       I know "Most' do this for fun,Some are so serious about about 'working dogs 'and 'schutzhund titles', that they knock anyone that don't "title" their dogs.

     It seems to some, certain lines, and certain traits are worthless. I'm just wondering,"If that title , before you breed your dog is so valuable, "WHAT EXACTLY SHOULD YOUR DOG BE ABLE TO TRACK," to PROVE, he (or she) is Breed Worthy?

    Does it really prove anything, if they can't find anything other than a laid out track? There is a thread going now,"Will your dog protect you?" after years of protection training. WHT CALL IT protection training, If his big reward is a SLEEVE, that someone "offers him" after he did good?

    Is that what you are training protection from,A sleeve that is 'Given up because your dog barked at it, and was allowed to take it from a helper?"

     Sorry, I'm just getting into this schH stuff, and am enjoying every minute of it, and yes... I WANT THAT TITLE(s). BUT, I also want to know my dog(s) will find me or someone else if lost, and that if an intruder assaults me or my family, my dog ain't going to looking for a sleeve to bite.

      I'm not looking to spawn a big ol' disagreement or anything, just want to know " Is there more to this entire title thing than just training the dog for a title for myself?"

     Can I transfer my sch tracking title to a SAR  dog without years more training??