Voraus or go out - Page 1

Came some one explaing a good techinique to start traing a dog for the voraus or go out.    I will appreciate all the help.

Thanks

I was taught to  move the dog back from the target for distance, not the target away from the dog in the beginning.   I like to use a ball, my dog is ball crazy, in the beginning drop the ball at the target while holding the dog and building drive simultaneously, (you need to be strong with a driven dog) I move him backwards so he is always looking at the ball, give command/point, release, dog runs to ball, huge big praise, lots of fun for the dog.  The platz comes later for me.

Well I never start the  voraus before my dog is reliable on the down.  I start the introduction first with laying my coat on the spot where I'm going to teach him to go. I have him down on the coat and reward him several times in a row first.  Then  I hold him by the collar a foot or so from the coat and throw food on the coat...make sure that he see's you doing this. You can use a ball instead if you like, whatever he is most crazy over.  I found food a tad better in combination with the down rather then trying to down him with the ball, but it's whatever you prefer.  Anyways you have him by the collar and he see's you throw the food/ball onto the coat.  Tell him the command that you are going to use and then run him to the coat holding the collar (only a foot or two) and down him at the sametime basically that he is grabbing the ball or the food.  Do this a few times and then do it from three feet and four feet etc.  I want him doing it well  at least three times in a row before I would back up another foot or two.  After I've worked up to about a 20 feet distance or so then I can usually jump 5-10 feet at a time depending on the dog.  Anytime I have problems with him not being sure of what is being asked of him or looking back to me on his way I go back to a closer span to the coat.  When he is good and reliable at this and really knows what is expected you can then place the coat in different locations.  (Alot of people I know never have the dog run in any direction except the direction that he would be going in during a trial. ) Finally you can then do it without using the coat. 
The first few times of that I would then lay him down first to where you are going to send him.  Call him and then voraus him to that spot where you had just downed him.  After that your home free!   I was always better at teaching it then I was at telling people how.  Hope this helps and best of luck.

Lynn  www.spruceviewfarms.com

Do you belong to a club k9orloff?  If so, the best thing is to  talk to some of the seasoned trainers, and your training director.  You can also do a google search (schutzhund send out), you will find a lot of advise on the net, but what works for one person or one dog might not always be what works the easiest  for the next person/dog. 

Lynn:  Your horses are amazing, I love your website!

 Lynn,

While I didn't ask the question, I wanted to tell you that I appreciated your answer. 
 
Oh, and I too love your website.

I think I am falling in love with Lincoln but I would even be happy with that pony......Oh well a gal can dream!

Thanks Gator and Sueincc,  Do either of you have any horses?

Lynn   www.spruceviewfarms.com

I did as a kid from the time I could walk, I had  horses, my parents had the idea that they would keep me out of trouble!   I had some TB crosses and I showed locally hunter/hack, pleasure, equitation, even a little jumper class sometimes when I felt really brave.  After college I was shocked to discover my free ride was over, so the horses were sold.   This was also approximately the same time I first realized people who work don't get summers off - aaaaggghhhhh!!!!

The last horse I had was when I was in my late 20s.  One of the neighbors inherited this gelding  from their grandfather when the grandfather died.  He was a really ugly smudgy flea bitten gray sort of leopard apaloosa with an uncharacteristically thick mane and tail, platter sized feet and a roman nose.  His name was Wampum!  Every time the people tried to ride him he either reared over or ran away or bucked, so he sat in their corral for about a year.  They asked me if I would do something with him.  He was really very dog like and sweet on the ground, same thing when I got on him.  Turns out he was only ever used for packing game (like elk) for hunting groups out of the mountains.  So he wasn't mean, just scared.  Anyway they told me he was mine but they would pay for him for the rest of his life.  Got a nice little english saddle and an eggbutt snaffle bit.  I had so much fun with that horse!   He developed cancer and they even paid for his chemo treatments.  He was in remission for many years.  I started noticing he would cough when I took him out, so I called the vet, sure enough his heart was starting to fail.  So then he really was like a great big old dog, who just loved being played with on the ground and taken for walks.  I really miss that guy.

 I always thought dressage was incredible to watch, but I don't remember any dressage schools in the southwest during the 60s.  That area was behind everyone else in everything it seemed like.  I remember hearing about  people  interested in eventing starting in the 70s maybe, and specializing in  dressage after that?

 Lynn,

 No, unfortunately I don't. 
  I simply admire their beauty.    My neighbor owns about 20 head at any one time, so I get to visit them and treat them with a few apples from time to time. 

I like to break the voraus excercise up into it's components.  I teach the send away as one exercise and the platz as a seperate exercise.  I start with a toy, usually a ball on a rope.  I hang the ball from a "tree" that I have made.  Similar to the poles that people hang decorative flags on.  These are available at hardware sores for about $6.  It has an arm that comes off to the side that the flag hangs on and a straight portion that gets pushed into the ground.  I attach a lenght of rope with a clothes pin to the arm of the "hanging post".  I then use the clothes pin to attach to the rope on the ball.  The ball then hangs and can swing.  The ball is hung about 3 feet off the ground.  I bring the dog to the hanging post and show it the ball.  I get the dog excited for the ball and drag the dog straight backwards about 10 - 15 feet while "pumping" the dog up for the ball.  I will "do you want to get it"  when the dog is really excited I point to the ball and say "voraus" releasing the dog.  THe dog will run full speed to the ball and snatch it from the clothes pin. 

I praise and play with the dog briefly and get the toy back and repeat the execrcise.  With the dog at the post, I attach the ball and drag backwards again and pump hte dog up and send him.  When the dog runs qucikly and directly to the ball, I will begin to increase the distance till I am 75 yards or so away. 

I will then vary the exercise by going to a football field and using a longer rope, I will attach the rope with the clothes pin to the goal post.  So the ball hangs in the middle of the goal post about 3 feet off the ground.  Obviously, I will hang it lower for puppies or smaller dogs.  I like using goal posts because many big competitions are held in stadiums with football fields.  The goal post develops "place association" and the dog gets in the habit of running full speed to the middle of the goal post, which is normally straight down the middle of the field.

Ok, on different days I work on the down out of motion.  I may work just the send away for 10 or 12 training sessions and nothing else to teach each it.  Each session having several repetitions.  This is very tiring for the dog as it running sprints the entire time. 

Before I start the down out of motion, I ensure the dog has a solid down stay.  I will put a 30 foot long line on the dog and play with 2 toys. I will throw a toy down field and let the dog chase it and bring it back to me.  When I throw the 2nd toy, I will position myself to be near the long line and will order "platz" just as the dog gets the toy.  I will put slight pressure on the line when the platz command is given.  I find it's initially easier to get the dog to platz just as it gets the toy.  Timing and distance is critical.  Obviously, a driven dog will not want to down before the toy initially.  It is easier to get the dog to down if it has reached the toy.  I will positon myself 29 feet from the dog, so I can give a light correction if necessary.  The exercise than goes to a 100 long line, to enforce the down if necessary. 

I rarely put the voraus and paltz together when teaching it.  Even after both are taught, I only add in the platz maybe 1 in 10 times when doing the voraus.  This keeps the speed.  I will train the down seperately again on different days even after the exercise is perfect.  It's good to have a solid platz when the dog is running full speed.  That is basically how I teach it, all motivational and the dog is high in drive. 

Jim