Help: Aggression. - Page 11

Ok, this was a hell of a lot of reading and I'll admit that all I did just skim a lot of it, but did someone seriously suggest protection work?! Jesus H Christ.  A dog that is being violent toward their owner, especially a dog that is meant to only be a pet, is NEVER a candidate for that.

BTW, 4pack was 110% right about all those so called "trainers" out there.  You know how many people take a dog to a few classes, maybe work for a training facility for a few weeks or months, do a BH (or 2 ) and call themselves dog trainers?! 

And if this is a hoax.....that's terribly sad. A person must live a very bitter, empty existence to do such a thing.

sueincc, I do believe you're right.    Somebody is having a giggle.  I'm going back to my little sip of Hennesey's for my New Year's celebration.

Lewis,  your description sounds like the dog does have mental illness, what you describe is very extreme.  Whether he is mentally ill from a tumor, or from some other source.  Even a mentally ill person, or dog, will usually show some kind of warning before attacking.   I had a cat once who showed signs of mental illness at 2 yrs old, by the time he was a lil over 3 yrs old we had him PTS because his fear and aggression issues became so severe that he was clearly not living a happy life.  But before he became mentally ill, he was a very loving, sweet and playful cat.   Mental illness is usually progressive, and not always predictable. 

I am sorry to hear you are going through this, I've lived with 2 very dominant shepherds, now and in the past, and never ever had an issue like you discribed.  It scares me to read about what your dog is doing.  

Jeff Oehlsen  got this one spot on as to these "wonderful" dogs being spoiled, undisciplined BRATS that aren't wonderful at all, and the OP needs a severe reality check as to these canine punks.  (One has a CD so that one is ok and getting the **** kicked out of it by the other GSD).  Best food, lots of toys, do whatever they want and that's okay with the owner, took an obedience class but outside the house does whatever it wants - these all help CREATE aggressive GSDs.  NOT wonderful in any way, shape, or form, lewis88.

I agree that first, medical issues need to be ruled out, so that's #1. 

Also, all that viciousness and not bitten once?  Either the aggressiveness is exaggerated or the post is a fake.

Nevertheless, if Lewis88 is sincere. I say that a medical exam and neutering are definitely in order, but they won't do much if your precious-wecious doggie-poos don't get a reality check and some real training.  From your initial post I know just the kind of dog owner you are - you have spoiled, undisciplined canines showered with food and toys and that you think are adorable but are in actuality royal PITAs.  Proven by your own statement that they're wonderful until you tell them to do something they don't want to do - they want to eat a bag of dog food and you say, no and they say, "who the hell are you?"  There's your answer right there as to what your dogs think about YOU:  NOTHING.  Think about that one for awhile.  They're all lovey as long as they get their way in everything.  They totally disrespect you and think you're a fool.  Think about it.

And the day your wonderful, dear, doggy-woggy Drake hurts someone else you are about to be in serious, serious legal trouble, not to mention the civil suits that will eat up your money and your property. If Drakey-wakey kills your CD bitch you will be getting what you deserve, but pity your poor other dogs.

Ruling out a medical issue like a brain tumor or whatever, I believe you have unwittingly TAUGHT your dog to behave this way.  (The reality is you refused to be pack leader - dogs MUST have somone in charge, so he took the job and now you must obey him.  There are a lot of dog owners like this.  Unfortunately).

Question for you: you admit that your own dog would have willingly mauled you (your own words).  That he is so unstable as to lunge and snap at total, non-threatening strangers, that if you ever tell him something he doesn't like your own dog will growl and bite you.  He obviously thinks nothing of you and doesn't even like you.  Why, then, is he your "beloved" Drake?

Lewis,  your description sounds like the dog does have mental illness, what you describe is very extreme. 

I respectfully disagree, although again, medical issues do have to be ruled out, yes. 

I think what has been described is simply that this dog is Alpha in this house and when lewis88 is trying to take that position back, the dog is meeting her challenge and putting her back in her place. 

He is giving warning: she turns around to find him staring at her.  That's a warning.  He inches closer.  That's a warning.  He's actually doing all the "correct" dog things.

>"We could never, ever put our beloved Drake to sleep. Not ever."

There comes a time when it's not about what you as the owners want, but what is best for the dog. Me, I love a hard dog, the harder the better. However, there's a difference between a hard dog, and a dangerous dog. As Angusmom mentioned: nobody ever said the right thing was easy.

I personally knew two dogs with rage syndrome / rage seizures... one was a soft-tempered lab, and one was a medium-tempered mutt. Both were like ticking timebombs. One was put down by a vet early in its life. The other grew to be about 6 or 7 before it was shot one day by the owner's wife in their home when it went in to kill another family member. The funny thing is, both dogs, when not having an episode, were utterly normal and safe to be around... except for a funny look in the eyes.

That being said, all the rest of the "crazy" and "dangerously aggressive" dogs I've met have just been dominant animals that people didn't know how to handle, and had inadvertantly raised wrong.

The first step is a trip to the vet.

Rage dogs cannot ever be "cured." It's a sad, and simple truth.

Extremely dominant dogs can do well if placed on a strict routine where nothing in life is free.

Without meeting the dog myself, I am not going to say he is one way or the other. But, if he does have rage syndrome, the kindest thing to do is put him down early, lest you wind up like the second owners in that story.

Typical warning signs of a dominant dog (in order):

• freezing
• meeting gaze
• turning to face directly towards
• approaching
• growling
• near-miss bites / "snapping"
• actual biting

Unfortunately most people don't start to take notice until the dog is at the growling phase. And dogs are very accurate with their jaws. Generally, if a dog doesn't hit home with a bite, it's not because of a lucky miss, it's a deliberate "final warning" from the dog.

ps. Never liked Cesar Millan. I don't like any trainer who thinks all dogs' issues can be solved with the same methods. Narrow thinking. A good trainer looks at each dog they encounter as an individual. At least that's my opinion.

I agree, that Cesar is a dip shit or if nothing else, no better than most trainers that have a good grasp of dogs. Don't fool yourselves folks, just because the choke outs are not aired on TV, doesn't mean they aren't happening. It's amazing how magical and non violent it looks in Hollywood. I have heard that Cesar would like more of the actual happenings to be aired but no one would back the show if that took place. As usual, if you see it on television, don't believe it. In his place, I'd feel like a farse if they portraid it the way they do and I would refuse to do the show. Yet again...all about the $$$. To me half truths are just as bad as lies. Now we have a bunch of Cesar wannabes running around, only knowing half the story and half the tricks.

Classic case. Everything was provoked. No brain tumor here. Yes when breaking up a dog fight......90% of the time the dog you grab will come at you. Yes even the beloved GSD (I am speaking through experience) Especially if you are screaming. This is a no brainer. And yes there was a clear reason this happened.No the pet smart trainers cant help you. But any GOOD trainer should see the problem pretty quick. Dont need the dog whiperer or any snake oils for this one. Pretty cut and dry. Dave

OH ya, I forgot.....how was the grip when he grabbed you? If it was full and no growling....I will take him!!! (just a little humor)

Why did this turn into a Cesar Millan bashing? The man can read dogs and gets the job done. I don't agree 100% with his methods but they work, especially when you deal with a situation where the pet owner doesn't have a lot of patience to carry through with a method they don't see the results of immediately. I mean, only after reading his book did I manage to walk my hard, stubborn working line on a regular choke collar, and it has nothing to do with choking him out or beating the shit out of him (things that wouldn't work *anyway*).

So the man has a terrible way of explaining what he knows and tries to immediately take control of dogs he has not bonded with. There are plenty of dog trainers who can talk really well but when push comes to shove can't read or communicate to dogs in that deep down instinctive level or rely way too much on training gadgets, and most of the dogs he deals with are pet dogs who are insecure and starved for some direction anyway. One episode that really told me he wasn't just some guy beating up dogs was the episode with the scared as hell research lab coonhound. If you knew anything from dogs you either respect or learn something from the guy that you can use yourself, just like you should with any trainer even if their method is *completely* the opposite of what you like use. What does bashing them do? Doesn't help you, certainly they would care less about your opinions.

For the aggression of the OP, this can be worked with depending on how much you know about dogs or how much you can learn and apply without having the dog bite someone else in the meantime. How much can we really do online in a case like this, honestly?