EPI/Sibo and Schutzhund Training - Page 1

Tonight I found out Molly has EPI and Sibo.  I am on a email group that provides information on the disease regarding food/meds, etc so I think I have that covered.  I pick up the meds first thing in the morning from my vet.  I was wondering if anyone has an EPI/Sibo dog that trains and competes in Schutzhund or AKC Obedience and how it effected their energy level, performance etc.  We have had issues this past year with Molly's jumping (cannot clear standard required height) which I attributed to her bad hips.  She also runs out of steam very quickly.  I am hoping that once I get her on viokase and tylan she will be able to absorb the proper nutrients and build back her stamina/strength.  She seems to enjoy training, just cannot handle it in long sessions.  I am trying to figure out if we should take some time off, or just continue at her own pace and when she is ready to quit, just take her off the field.  I just don't want to encourage that behaviour if we are able to continue and try for her SchI and CDX in the spring.

Any thoughts, advice would be appreciated.

Cheryl

First,  I'm so sorry about Molly's diagnosis.  Anja was diagnosed with both 2 years ago now.  I do believe she slowed down a bit in training for a while.  She also got a little agitated at other dogs in class before putting her weight back on.  We don't do schutzhund, but are 1 leg away from our CDX and also herd.  She's doing great now.  I do add a powdered supplement from Berts Naturals to her food, mixed in with the enzymes.  Can't say for sure that it helps, but it certainly isn't hurting.  Do you know you can by Tylan from KVvet?  It's usually cheaper than from the vet.   Just yesterday Anja donated blood to Texas A & M for EPI research. 

Good luck with your training.  I would let her go at her own pace until she gains her weight back.

Hi Cheryl, My bitch is 4 years old and has EPI. I feed her raw pancreas I get from my local butchery here in South Africa. He gets it from the abbattoirs. Normally its beef pancreas and some pork pancreas mixed. I feed her twice a day in the morning and then in the evening. If possible Id feed her three times a day just smaller portions, but I work so its not possible. I mix it with her dog pellets. She maintains her weight and doesnt lack any energy. She has done her AD (20km endurance test) without a problem. I normally jog with her in the evenings doing about 3-4km every time - no problem. She got her BH this year but failed her Sch1 (tracking & not releasing in the bite work). Have sorted that out and should get her sch1 early next year. Training a dog with pancreas deficiency is difficult but if you know your dog it shouldnt be a problem. Keep the hard work up, it will be worthwile.

RoZoAn and Ian:

Thank you so much for your feedback and congratulations on your accomplishments with your dogs.

My Vet is great and upfront told me that the viokase and tylan will be less expensive if I purchase on line.  I am picking up a supply today from the vet so I can start Molly on them immediately and then will buy a supply on line with the prescription he is giving me.

I would like to submit a sample of Molly's blood for testing as well.  Do you have contact information to send me so I can request more information about gathering the sample and where to send?

One other question.  What do you use for training treats and for tracking?  I was under the impression that I should change her current food and should not just give her anything.   What are the best tracking treats that would be good for her system and hopefully avoid flare ups.

Thank you again,

Cheryl

Hi Cheryl,

I have a 5 yr old male that was diagnosed with EPI when he was just 9 mo old. He is on Biocase V (which is a generic of Viocase V, and MUCH cheaper!) and is doing great!

He has super drive and energy. I have a problem trying to cap the drive as he REALLY likes to work. We do not compete but he still likes to work every day. I think he would fetch a ball 24/7/365 if he could. We track through all types of terrain, work on obedience and he has a great bark & hold and bitework.

Once you get your girl stablized on the meds, you probably won't have any trouble building her stamina back.

As far as treats for dogs with EPI, I use chicken. I boil up a chicken breast and cut it into small pieces. Anything with high protein, low fiber and low fat will work.

Good luck and I hope everything works out for you both!

My Maya has EPI and bouts of SIBO. Although we don't do SchH we do AKC stuff and she has a CDX and TD title. We are working on utility now. Any treats I give her do have enzymes on them which is a bit of an inconvenience. I do use the ball more as a reward though. Her energy level has always been great.

As far as tracking treats, I boiled chicken and then mixed in a bag with enzymes. For training treats I use Charlie Bears with enzymes on them.

BTW- there is a EPI enzyme group that orders enzymes in bulk and you can order from them at a much cheaper price than you would pay at your vets.

Good luck.

I had a GSD pup diagnosed with Sibo at 10 weeks, he was given tylan powder with every meal and it seemed to help. At first I had lots of problems getting him to eat, so I would make him boiled chicken, boiled meat, made him beef stew, he loved vegtables, especially carrots and fruits. I eventually got him to eat regular dry food.

Cheryl; this is the email address of the gal at Texas A&M in charge of collecting samples:

lclark@cvm.tamu.edu

Email Leigh Ann and she will give you all the info.  My vet did the draw for free because it was for research.  Also ask Leigh Ann if they still have funds to pay for the shipping of the sample.

As far as treats for tracking and training.  I am pretty luck with Anja as far as her handling a few extras without enzymes.  For tracking sometimes I use the dehydrated lamb lung treats you can buy in a lot of pet stores or even hamburger patties or chicken that has been in my freezer a little to long for my taste!  For obedience I use Natural Balance food rolls.  I do sometimes hide an enzyme "pill" in those if I think we are going to use a lot of treats that day.  On her food I use the Pancreatin 6X purchased through the EPI group on Yahoo, but for training, I just buy the "people" pills in vitamin stores.  I found a pancreatin 8X pill at Super Supplements that I have been using.  I cut them in half because I worry that it would go right through her with the coating they put on them.  Oh and I just recently switched her to a grain free food-Taste of the Wild, Bison/Venison.  I truley think this is helping her SIBO.  She hasn't had a flair up "yet" with this food and her stools look so much better than with Canidae (the new formula sucks too!).  Of course I probably just "jinxed" us by saying that!!!

Good luck, and besides the extra money being spent on enzymes, this is a pretty easy disease to maintain, so far,   with Anja.

Janet

Another way to support research!  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/221530.html#221530