Dual Purpose PSD's- Where to start??? - Page 1

First of all I am fairly new to the forum and have learned a lot so far….  

I am a PSD handler full time employed by a police agency and a USPCA certified PD trainer.  My agencies K9 unit has had funding issues and most money is secured thru donations that I and other handlers have gotten.  I would like to develop the unit to more K9 teams in the next few years.

What I am trying to research is where I can raise/get green GSD’s for dual PSD’s.  In the past [as with myself] my agency buys an imported from a reputable broker is sent thru a patrol school.  The issue that I am looking at is the green dogs from the broker are the $ that break the donation bank.  I am trying to research on my own on one of 2 options….  Buying a green dog direct….  Option 2: raising a few pups and developing them into potential PSD’s.    I would have to purchase the pups myself and raise them to 1-1.5 and “hope” they will be a high quality prospect.  Now there is a personal financial risk that I am willing to take in order to help out program.  I would then “re-sell” the prospect to my agency for the “puppy price” allowing us to get the most for our $ at my own personal risk.   I am looking for absolutely no personal gain in this endeavor.

What do you think of the % of success in me picking up a pup or 3  from good lines and having it turn out to be equal to the tested and selected dongs imported by the broker???   These dogs would in turn be placed with new handlers and they would attend the patrol school. 

   Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

>  You are taking a chance on the pups. There are agencies who breed for their program but they will have to tell you honestly it isn't always a good gamble. Getting green dogs is a problem right now. Since 911 prices and demand for PSDs has risen sharply.

>  I have ben pretty lucky detector dog wise. I havebeen able to test several prospects (retrievers) and have only washed 2 over the last couple of years.

very risky, with pus you never know what you get, green dogs, well you have to have good sources, that are affordable. Meaning i would take a trip to your potential sources, or find some by recomendation, maybe even not through professional brokers, do your research.

go with pretested older dogs, when you did your research and trust your source, they can tell you if the youngesters have the potential, after 14 months of age you have a better idea on what the dog will bring to the table. You can help your agency faster, although i have to wonder of the maybe posisible conflict of interest, not sure how your areas see that, but lots of trainers I got to know never sell to the own departement, unless they have inhome dogs, but that wouldn't work with  a donation plan, but maybe you have that figured out allready, just though i mention it.

You may even try to get with Rescues, lots of nice Working dogs get turned in, because the owners are overwhelemed by them, and they get stamped agressive or other wrong labels. Maybe you know good people who can go and evaluate, or maybe some knowledgable peoplein shelters (but beware, these are rare, some shelterworkers have no idea what a good GSd is and what a bad GSD is- they do not know the temperament) So try finding knowledgeble people Might be a shot in the blue ,but might be a thing to look into. Sometimes the most amazing creatures end up in rescues or shelters, and trust me GSDs are going quite often on deathrow, because they are missunderstood.

Buy dogs that are not imports dogs that you can tested over here.I sell green dogs all the time that were raised over here for a lot less than imports.1200.00 to 3500.00.

Thanks Gerald

My agency and a neighboring PD just purchased 4 dogs in September for the current K9 school.  All green and only GSD's were available; no Malinois at the time.  Well, one mali that had eaten 3 handlers and was returned.  Since the guys getting the dogs were green themselves we didn't take that one.....Deacon is right the war is taking a lot of dogs, mainly mals for the special forces work but GSD's are used by the Military and contractors as well.  The weak dollar against the Euro has also raised the price substantially in the past year or so.  Hopefully, that is turning around.  We went to 2 different vendors here in the Southeast and paid $6,500 per dog.  All of these were green imported GSD's about 15 - 20 months old and we tested a bunch to decide on the 4 we chose.  The 5th dog is my personal dog that I donated to my PD to use as my K9.  I purchased him at 7 weeks and he is currently 2 1/2 years old.  He is an awesome dog band I knew what I wanted when I chose him as a puppy.  He is a high end GSD that could easily be a National level SchH competitor.  Puppies are a crap shoot, you have to worry about hips, health, temperment, etc.  I had to jump through hoops to "donate" my dog to the PD.  He is worth alot more than the dogs we purchased and works better.  Knowing his abilities I wanted him as my K9 and I am happy with my choice.  But my Dept didn't make it all that easy to use him because it was never done before.  So my advice would be to test the water and see if your dept is open to the idea.  Some dept's want the ability to return the dog if it doesn't work out in training.  You have to be ready to replace the dog if it washes out.  Just something to consider.

You can also buy green dogs direct but you must deal with soemone reputable, you can screwed that way also.

Jim

K9 Hunter like the other posters have already mentioned. Raising a pup for police work is tricky. Your best bet is to go with green dogs.Some questions are posed:

1) How do you plan to evaluate a pup from 8-10wks of age for protential police work?

2) If the pups you raise don't work out what do you plan to do with them?

3) How are the pups to be raised? Most breeders that breeds dogs for police\military\sport don't raise these dogs in family  settings but are kenneled with adequate level of socialization and mental stimulation.

4) What kind of dog temperment are you looking for? Hardness, courage. A patrol dog, dope dog, bomb dog?

5) What do you plan to do about health care? What happens if the dog has some sort of genetic defect like hips and elbows to name a couple.

When you add this all up it's a better bet to go with a green dog. If the dog has health issue depending on your contract the dog can be replace. Most breeders that breeds for police\military\sport have years of experience with dealing with the above quesstions. Make sure you do your homework with the breeder\broker. Ask for reference to back it up.

Contact Suzanne at http://www.vongrunheideshepherds.com/page/page/6525399.htm. She's a fellow K9 handler and also breed working dogs for police and sport. She can help you over there.

Good luck!

I suppose if you have the financial ability to take that risk you may find your way to be self gratifiying.  However you should consider the risk not only in the financial aspect invested but also your countless hours to work the dog in hopes it makes the cut for what your dept. needs/wants.  I was always told either way you pay...buying a dog with training that's older may cost a little more but there are benefits such as you have an idea of what the dogs ability will likely be with the proper continued training.  If you start with a pup you will pay less up front but in the end adding in the training you will likely be up over what you would have spent on a green dog.  IMO it works out the same or just about the same. 

I talked to a guy who is a retired k9 handler that breeds specifically for police dogs.  He keeps the entire litter, watches them, works them, keeps the ones he feels are suitable for the work and sells them.  The ones that are not cut out for it he sells on a spay/neuter contract to the appropriate homes and folks are happy to have a well bred dog that already has the obedience training done.  Out of a litter of 7 let's say, he said he may get 2-3 if he's lucky that are truly suitable for what a PD needs.  Being retired he a. has the time, b. has the financial resources to take the risks and c. has the facilities to do this. 

It's really a personal decission you'll have to make depending on your specific circumstances.  Best of Luck to you!

I would contact Steve Simpkins at www.haussimpkins.com, he might help you out, he is not a dealer/broker, and they have very consistant breeding program with 60% placed in police and private sector security firms, good guy to talk to even if you doing just research. Good luck :)