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by wildgunsr on 25 November 2008 - 07:11
Hi all,
I have been training with GSD's all the while but I am tempted to try training a malinois. I know this is a GSD messageboard, but I was wondering if there is anyone well versed with the malinois here? The malinois messageboard is awfully quiet.
Anyway, I'm just gonna try my luck here. I came across this advert recently. Just based on pedigree, what do u guys think?
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/classifieds/4411.html
Malinois puppies available. Suitable for high level sport or law enforcement.
Sire : Zeno van de Berlex-Hoeve www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/pedigree/505487.html
Dam: Extasis van het Dreiland www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/pedigree/505691.html
Whelped on 18th October 2008.
Pedigree of the pups is :
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/breeding.result?fadir=505487&modir=505691
Puppies are line bred on Elgos du Chemin des Plaines. Both parents are active competition dogs.
Zeno has competed succesfully in ScH as well as IPO. Zeno is an excellent stud, having proving himself by passing down excellent character for work to his puppies from different females. Extasis is actively competing in SchH and Agility. She has proven herself numerous times on the competition field.
by Get A Real Dog on 25 November 2008 - 08:11
Well here is my take on the Z litter Berlex-Hove and this breeding.......
Zico was a bad ass. From what I understand he was hit and miss. Produced some "sketchy" dogs. You either got nice dogs with some sharpness or you got crap. He was sold to Austrialia or New Zeland so who knows what he produced over there. Waste of genetics as far as I am concerned. Would have been real nice to see him stay in Europe or come over here. Waste of genetics sending him to where ever he went. However what he produced could very well have been why he was sold there (along with big bucks i am sure)
I know a breeder who had a female from the Z litter that did not produce well for her. The dogs behind this litter are top notch; proven producers but I have not heard of anything from the Z litter consistantly producing the same quality as the dogs behind it. If they were, we would be seeing alot more of it.
The bottom half is basically all Perle Tourbier line breeding. This has been proven successfull for years and years. Crossing it with Elgos has also proven successful (if the paper on all these breedings is correct, which is doubtful) Utramaro(sp?) was one of the last from the Deux Pottios kennel. Very successful competition dog. Throws big grips but lacked aggression (not uncommon with Elgos depending on the bitch he was bred to). My understanding is he needed to be bred to drivey and sharp females to get something good.
For some reason the bottom half doesn't make sense but I can't put my finger on it.
One thing I have noticed about the Mal pedigrees on this database is many of these pedigrees are not correct. Neither the paper pedigrees or the known/believed "real pedigrees". Many of these dogs have titles listed on them that defiantely are not right.
If it were me, I would not spend the money importing a pup from this litter to the US. Especially if you are not familiar with Malinios. The Belgians will screw you good. So will the Dutch for that matter(I am assuming this is in Belgium or Holland) If it is in the US it would be worth a shot. However you would be getting the Z litter close in the pedigree which is rare in the US for what it is worth. I would like to have something from Zico( not really anything else from the Z litter) but not enough to pay big bucks for it.
There is a Zico son in Southern Ca that has produced fairly well from what I understand.
Hope this helps
by SchHBabe on 25 November 2008 - 14:11
The ad lists location as "Malaysia". Unless you live in SE Asia I wouldn't risk importing a Malinois when you've got such good choices here in the US that you can see with your own eyes. I have had GSD's for years, but added a Malinois to the family unit recently. If you want a good Malinois puppy here in the US, go to Ivan Balabanov. We got our female Mali from him and she is EXACTLY what we asked for. If you have other questions, PM or email me.
Yvette
by malshep on 25 November 2008 - 14:11
I agree with SchHBabe, if you can't see, touch the pup don't risk. Loup Noir has had some nice pups that are on the Sch and ring field.
by hunter k-9 on 25 November 2008 - 15:11
This litter will be here in 09, up in PA. Sire has very nice lines from Kukay's and Deux Pottois and the dam is from older Vinkelhof, Lowenfels and Deux Pottois lines. This should be a very strong litter with over the top drives.
Django v. Chanmiche' SchIII
X
Canin Concepts' Deja SchI
by Christopher Smith on 25 November 2008 - 21:11
by Kollenberg on 31 March 2009 - 02:03
I think the letter from Mr. "Get A Real Dog" deserves a reply, to set a few things straight.
I will overlook his rather "arrogant and ignorant" general accusations of the "Belgians" and the "Dutch" of generally being "crooks" and "screwing" others. It's too stupid to comment on, but could possibly be a case of the writer having moved around in the wrong circles for too long.
However, a few clarifying and additional comments on Mr. Bert Aert's Belgian Z-litter of "v.d. Berlex-Hoeve":
The litter was whelped on 15.01.2000. Two males and six bitches.
Six of the siblings passed IPO3 repeadly, one untiled bitch was sold to the USA. Another untiltled bitch was sold as a pet puppy, to my knowledge.
Zico is the best known in the litter. He was sold to Australia after placing 3rd at the FCI World Championship in 2003 with the same scores (291) as the winner and the 2nd placed dog. He also placed 2nd at the Belgian Meisterschaft. In Australia he quickly made a big name for himself ... not just as a competition dog, but even more so as an outstanding stud dog. Not only private (Australian) breeders understood how to utilise this male's extraordinary genetic make-up, but the Australian Defence Forces have also used him numerous times as a stud dog ... with excellent results and they have stored frozen sperm from him for future use as well.
I shall not dwell here on Zico's world wide contribution as an outstanding stud dog, arguably being the most dominant son of his famous sire, Turcodos v.d. Duvetorre, and his not less important grandsire, Stoned v.d Duvetorre. For those interested beyond these lines, you can read more about Zico on the web page: www.nordenstamm.com.
As a competition dog, Zico had "everything" it would take an experienced handler to get to the top! He has wonderfully, balanced drives. Excellent trainability; he's lighning fast with an untireing concentration-level and a great ability to quickly switch between drives. He is a very robust and serious dog. I mean real serious, and I wouldn't like to be at the receiving end of his anger when called for.
Zico came to Australia with an IPO3 title and he quickly became my favorite. Under international judges I repeated his IPO3, and titled him to VPG3 and SchH3, as well as trained him to FH1 and FH2 (99 points under the judge, World Champion, Mr. Haruo Masuda).
Zico's litter sister, Zita, is another dog from the famous Z-litter, purchased and coming to Australia. Now at 71 years of age, and having trained and titled a number of dogs over the last 50 years, I feel rather confident in saying that both dogs rank amongst the very best dogs I've ever had, trained and competed with, including a 12th placed GSD at the BLSP.
I do not personally know the other dogs from this litter. I've spoken to owners, listen to the breeder (Mr. Bert Aerts, himself a World champiom handler) and the people who worked and trained these Z-dogs in Belgium. The achieved results should speak for themselves.
Finally, may I say: By looking at the results from the FCI and DVG Meisterschafts over the last decade or so does indicate to me that Mr. "Get A Real Dog" probably should be looking at purchasing a Malinois ... next time he is in the market for a "real dog" :-) And as for his ignorant opinion of Zico et al's genes are wasted in a country like Australia have given many of us here a big laugh ...
All the best for now and kind regards,
Jens Kollenberg
www.nordenstamm.com
jenskollenberg@bigpond.com
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