How would you explain, and/or defend this dog's back? - Page 1

First, my interest in learning why some German Shepherds are bred this way is sincere. It is not an attack of any kind.

Second, we all know that this is not anomalous; this German man's kennel is full of dogs like this, as are many others. 

From the standard: "The over-line proceeds from the neck, continuing over the high, long withers and over the straight back through the slightly sloping croup without abrupt change. The back is moderately long, firm, strong, and well muscled. The loin is broad, short, powerfully fashioned, and well muscled. The croup should be long and slightly sloping (approx. 23° from the horizontal) and without a break in the over-line as it continues over the tail-set."

Thoughts? Does anyone here breed for this a phenotype?

Gary

not me

I  met a guy a couple years ago with a male that looked like this, I was shocked because I thought the dog was crippled. Sometimes pictures can make it look worse than it really is, but I saw this dog in person and thought to myself I would have the dog fixed if it was mine.Crazy thing about it he paid 15,000.00 for this crippled looking male and he couldn't believe I didn't want a pup from him. I guess I don't like the look. Just my opinion.

Explain, yes. Defend, no. The story is that certain German breeders were disappointed over the way their dogs' backs started sagging after a long workout, AD type. So, they started breeding for dogs with a slight, I said slight, roach in the back which would level out after a workout and not sag. It was supposed to make a stronger back. Somehow, it became popular and German showline breeders started breeding dogs to have this roached back. Like anything popular, it went to extremes.

Some dogs only look like they have a roached back, due to the way they are posed. Some dogs actually do have a very obvious roach which you can feel in the dog's back. If you let a dog stack itself naturally, you can tell which do and which don't.

German working lines don't have the roach. They have a straighter back.  American showlines don't have the roached back, but they do have multiple other structural problems.  I refuse to use the euphemism "issue". They aren't issues. They are problems.

"German working lines don't have the roach. They have a straighter back.  American showlines don't have the roached back, but they do have multiple other structural problems."

How about German show lines?

I said: German showline breeders started breeding dogs to have this roached back.

Showline breeders are still breeding for this, although some are moving away from it now.

I suggest you check out this site:

http://www.shawlein.com/c_the_breed/shawlein_standard.htm

Missed that in your first post Sam. Thank you for your answer, it is the most complete explanation on the topic I have read. I am familiar with Linda's site, it is excellent. Thanks again for illuminating the phenomenon for me.

Gary

I'm not a fan of the wg showlines personally, but I am wondering how old the dog in this picture was when it was taken.   I have known a couple that looked REALLY badly extreme as pups but as adults they grew into some of the strange proportions, their tail no longer drags on the ground, etc.   I'm still not a huge fan of thier conformation but it's definately not as extreme was when they were pups.  Just curious about the age of this dog and how much it changes (or not?) over time...