GSDCA National in Beaumont - Page 1

Just got back from the GSDCA National in Beaumont, Texas. Only thing worse than the dogs was the judging. Swaybacks and hideous type being put up all over the place.

The lady puts a swayback male select 2 and a humpback bitch select 1.  Quite liberal with her acceptance of deformities.

If I saw one more animal with a 3 inch croup and a swayed, whipping topline I was going to scream.  Not to mention the bad heads (with nothing in them), the no bone, no ligmentation, no coat, and on and on. 

The only positive I saw was the very good layback of scapula on quite a few animals.

About 200 people in attendance. The point schedule is now down to 10 dogs for a major win. Truly a dying game.

Gee, maybe it's because people like you do nothing but complain?  You can't find ONE POSITIVE thing to say about either winner?

The male had LOVELY bone, and proper short hocks.  His color was good, and his neck was strong.  His shoulder could have been a bit better.

The bitch was a bit roachy in motion, yes, but she was MODERATE in angle, her color and coat was lovely, her bone was spectacular, and she was overall a well put together bitch.  Again, I would like to see a better front as she looked a bit lifty to me, but I don't disagree with the judge's pick

At least you saw overall good fronts....

I won't disagree that head pieces are a problem in American lines, but bone HAS been improving, and what you consider hideous type may be fantastic for another person.  It's subjective.  I've seen hideous type and deformities in every line.  The reason this sport is dying isn't JUST because of dogs that are being bred, but because nobody can find at least one nice thing about each dog...and there is ONE nice thing in EVERY dog, whether it is as grandiose as a good front, or as seemingly unimportant as a good coat.

Is there a link anywhere to results or pictures? TIA

The official results won't be posted for awhile, but here is the male

Am/Can Ch MV GV Trafalgar's Full Throttle "Diesel"

For those who don't know what his titles mean, he is an American Champion, a Canadian champion, an American Grand Victor, and a Canadian Grand Victor!  He won BOTH his GV titles THIS YEAR!  He was also the 2008 Canadian Maturity Victor!

I have not found any pictures of the bitch that won.  I believe she is Mexican bred.  She IS in the PDB.  Her name is Hiena Gomez "Yena", and she went GVx from the classes (Winner's Bitch)

Sorry, but that male is pretty ugly. IMO, it looks like a female. Look at the lack of bone and the weak pasterns. I have nothing against American dogs if they are good dogs, but I just do not find him appealing at all.

And you have a right to that opinion, but you can surely find at least ONE nice thing about him.

And there are some GV's that you'd have to bribe me to feed.  This is one I happen to like, but not everybody else, which is ok.

I disagree about lack of bone and weak pasterns.  I think he has bad forefeet, but his pasterns are correct.

Xeph, What do you think are the primary reasons for the decline in the american show ring for participants and thus numbers needed for a major.? Not being critical just curious as to your insight on this situation. Also, if a male that is this bitchy looking is the breed representative for 2008 of all the dogs in the country....how is the masculinity that should accompany a world class male become a reality. Again not being argumentative but males with weak heads have been a problem for as previous poster stated....how does putting a dog up in the supreme spot help to correct this?

A head can be fixed in a generation.  And while SOME heads are bitchy (especially from the front) I wouldn't say this dog is.  There was a GV, Boss, who was also a very masculine male, including when looked at from the front.

When you're used to massive German heads (and come on, we all know there are some that are TOO big...they're GSDs, not Rottweilers people) some of these dogs CAN look extremely bitchy.  Of course, I see lots of dogs with tons of skull and no breadth of muzzle to show for it.

I personally believe the decline in the American show scene is as I stated before...bad attitudes.  People do not encourage and only tear dogs apart.  They can't fine one bloody nice thing to say about anybody else's dog.  Well who wants to stay around for that?!  Seriously!?

There was a GV I absolutely HATE...cannot stand this dog in any way shape or form.  I think he's overall ugly as sin, and I don't think he's all that fabulous a producer....BUT, I found a nice thing about him....full detention and good pigment.  Do I like the overall dog?  God no...but I found something positive about him.

You cannot focus on only ONE area of the dog...people always preach this but seem to fail to apply it.  What else has the dog got? You can broaden a skull and widen a muzzle in a generation or two, structural angles are much harder to fix.

This GV GSCDA grand victor is not a real german Shepherd Dog (GSD). It is an American Shepherd, a hybrid bred down from the original import blood over many generations.  Don't confuse the two breeds, they have very little in common.  This gv dog is way too long, has a pushed forward front, sickle hocks, steep in the croup with a short croup and high tailset, poor washed out color, deficient in male head and type, lack of bone.  Lifts in front even on loose lead.  A long but very incorrect gait.  Yes, can be considered a wonderful dog by lovers of the current American Shepherd hybrid type being put up at AKC/GSDCA shows, folks who wouldn't know a real GSD if it appeared next to them.  If this is what you like, fine, but this is not anything like the best VA or high V rated SV/FCI west German bloodline GSDs.  These american shepherd dogs (ASDs) are long string beans with no masculinity.  Very few have proper GSD working temperament.  It doesn't bother me that folks of the GSDCA like these dogs (ASDs), as long as they don't try to equate them with the real SV/FCI GSDs imported or bred directly from Europe and West Germany.  I went to Germany in 1982 to the Sieger Show and saw the real GSDs.  Ever since I cannot stand the American Shepherds, none of them.  They don't even look like real GSDs (And I am talking about GSDs without roach backs, your typical V rated GSD with a clean, short back). 

Careful slo mo analysis frame by frame of the typical top wining ASD specimen like this GSDCA gv going loose lead when moving at 1000 frames per second, shows lots of back flex, a wind up spring type propulsion from the rear due to the long lower thighs and steep croups, with the front being lifted and held for an instant while the rear propels the dog up and forward (the long back and over long length of the ASD tends to stabilize the movement by balancing the front to the excessive rear lift and drive due to the sickle hocks and makes the movement look smoother tahn it would be otherwise).  This movement looks great to the untrained eye of a person who hasn't seen the real thing and doesn't know the standard, and can appear even better on a tight lead to them, but it is highly inefficient and the ASDs typically tire out easily.   Plus, it is very incorrect structure and movement.  If you like these ASDs, fine, buy them, breed them, show them. But don't try and convince hard core true GSD enthusiasts that they are real GSDs.  They are not.  For me, I'll stick with the typical V rated Show line (SL) Black and red/braun GSD from the origin, West Germany, or a V rated deep black sable working line (WL) GSD from West Germany. 

Preston, don't spout rhetoric and propaganda.  A hybrid implies that something else was involved at somepoint, and there is nothing but Shepherd blood in that dog, whether you like it or not.  They are the same breed, whether you like it or not.

And some of the best V/VA rated GSDs are no better than some American dogs, and couldn't work their way out of a paper bag.  If you want to talk about fronts, some of the WORST fronts I've seen are on West German dogs that completely lack front reach (the NASS photos show it all).

These american shepherd dogs (ASDs) are long string beans with no masculinity
Opinion

Very few have proper GSD working temperament.
Closer to the truth.  I won't deny that many of these dogs would have no idea what to do when confronted with

But don't try and convince hard core true GSD enthusiasts that they are real GSDs.
Don't insult the rest of us and act like you're above us all simply because we enjoy a different flavor of dog than you do.  Your dogs are no better and no worse than ours.  Don't you dare try and call any one of us...of ANY other lines lacking in love and enthusiasm and adoration for this breed because we don't breed or own dogs that are of your standards.

A GSD fancier appreciates ALL lines for SOMETHING instead of ONE line for EVERYTHING.  Every line is lacking in something right now, and there can be no denial about that.

But then, maybe i'm crazy.