introducing new traits in the Gene Pool - Page 1

How does one go about intrducing absolutely new traits in the gene pool?

I'm talking of traits which have been lost or which may be desirable in future breedings. If the trait is totally absent in the current gene pool how would you introduce it into the breedings?

Please give your suggestions

regards

Is this rhetorical?  Of course, one has to outcross to dogs of other breeds who have the trait you want or need.  Do you have an example in mind?

breed it in.   say you are talking about adding civilness to some of the showline dogs.  breed to a strong, civil working male.  granted not all of the pups will inherit the trait you are looking to add, or maybe not to the degree you desire.    keep the pup that best shows the improvement you are looking for and add them to your breeding program.

the same goes for adding structure back into the working line.  cross it with a nice showline dog. 

if you look back on a lot of the V rated working dogs, you will find  some showline in the pedigree.  usually in the 4th to 5th generation.     every so ofter you have to go back and add this, or you will end up with long, square dogs.   as has been said before, the working line breeders have done this more so than the showline breeders have added working ability by using working dogs in their breeding programs.

john

lets say I find that the kind/Level  of Social Aggression I want in my breeding is totally absent in current Gene Pool.

What should I do? MY question is two fold. I'm also asking are there certain traits which have died out in our current stock TOTALLY which may be required if at all in future? What would one do then?

regards & Thanks for inputs

see above post.

totally absent from the gene pool?  only solution would be to cross breed,,,as some have done.  you would want to pick a breed that at least resembles your breed, as to not screw up the conformation completly.

john

You should not have to go outside the breed, I know of nothing that is missing from the GSD gene pool that was there and is now gone.

Look for it in some of the small puddle's....:)

Change the extreme's and change the health issue's, what else is there?

Agree with the above posts... only different answer would be if the "trait" that you are seeking is not a German Shepherd trait... in which case it would be better to change breeds than to alter the genetic make up of German shepherds by breeding to a different breed illegally, or finding an individual who has traits not considered German Shepherd in origin.  

  So basicly if you want a dog who behaves more like a Mal, or a Dobi, or a Rottie... then maybe that should be your breed, rather than trying to change German Shepherds to be more like them. One of the amazing things about shepherds is their verstility in being able to cope with all kinds of different environments, and in the case of Police/military K-9's they are also most able to be retrained to be safe in home environments.

John,

I totally agree with your post (the first one, not the second as I would never see the need to outcross to a different breed). However, I noticed that not too many people "mix". Would you do it? I have the utmost admiration for breeders who believe in the "Universal Idee" - as the Germans call the idea of combining workinglines with showlines. One of the nicest and most successful examples of course is Levis von Arlett who in appearance actually resemblences his paternal grandfather, only with much better conformation, bone strength and coat. His head is huge and his temperament just ideal (calm and social but also a serious dog). www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/559710.html. I had the opportunity to spend a few hours up close with him while being in Germany last month. This is a dog who will also compete regionally or maybe even higher once titled.

Since I am coming from the show line field, I actually purchased my V-rated black female with the "Universal Idee" in mind, but have not gotten around to it. Right now, a couple of friends in Germany are trying to convince me to do something very revolutionary and radical, but I have not made up my mind yet. If I agree, I will announce that soon. But who would actually be willing to buy these puppies? Most of them go into pet homes, since neither showline fanciers nor workingline enthusiasts will risk buying them. And that is why we won't see more of these dogs. The first generation is not going to be the end product, of course. But it requires titling and showing this first generation to continue on. And that is where most people fail. They do not have the patience and the ability to think in generations, which every serious breeder should do. 

If anybody would seriously consider a puppy of these "mixed lines",  please contact me privately. I might have a proposal they will like.

Regards, Chris

I agree there is so much different characteristics across the breed that you should not need to go look outside. Chris that is one beautiful dog, I hope he works as well as he looks. There is nothing better than a good looking GSD that is a working nut as well. I hope that whatever you considering trying out Chris will work out. It will be nice to see the breed come together, good working dog with beautiful structure. Good luck and keep us up to date.

That's what selective breeding is all about.