Kaleef dogs - Page 1

Hello,

I wonder if there are some members who know these dogs better, with their pros and cons.

They look to me having a nice front, but are all USA homebred with no German ancestors.

Thank you,

Arlette, here we get into the whole American-German split. Basically, the American dogs are overangulated, have very upright, steep fronts (short upper arm, poor shoulder layback.) and excessively long backs. They are bred to produce the most showy sidegait possible, but very few of them can work. There are also a lot of spooky temperments in the American lines, due to heavy linebreeding on a number of popular sires with poor nerves.

That said, Kaleef kennels has a lot of progeny out of Dallas (KIsmet's Sight for Sore Eyes), who was one of the most correct GSD's to hit the American show scene in many years. He had an excellent work ethic, and did very well at herding. He had a short back, and was not a hock-walker (his hocks did not strike the ground when he trotted, as happens with many American breds, due to the excessive length of the thigh and the loose ligamentation.) Unfortunately, many of the Kaleef dogs show the usual weaknesses of the American lines, though a few I saw on their pages favoured Dallas in their build.

The picture on the Kaleef site of a dog on the couch with a small child is Dallas. He was the house dog for his owners, and was excellent with kids as well as other much smaller dogs. Unfortunately, from what I've been told, he died unexpectedly in his sleep at a fairly young age (10 years old) of unknown causes. This sudden death syndrome is another weakness in the American lines.

You will not find too many people on this board who like the American lines. Many feel they have deviated so far from the original standard that they should be considered a separate breed. It has gotten to the point where you have almost zero hope of winning a ribbon in conformation in the American show ring if your dog is from German lines. American breeders especially dislike the roached backs of the German dogs. I have a Dallas grand-daughter, a mix of German and American lines, and I've been told there is no way I will be able to put a championship on her in the Canadian show ring, even though her back is nearly level.

<<nfortunately, from what I've been told, he died unexpectedly in his sleep at a fairly young age (10 years old) of unknown causes. This sudden death syndrome is another weakness in the American lines.>>

You don't consider the death of Astana Alfons or several other german dogs recently at around 3 yrs old, or the death or Eramus Noort at 8 premature?  more and more german dogs are dieing young for various reasons.  and more and more showline dogs are physically rbeaking down quicker now adays.  how many dogs are finished with their working carerr's by the time they are 6 or 7?  to me, thats a young dog! and should still be active and working, not arthritic and fatigued. 

I am quite aware of the issue's american lines had in the past with dieing young, and especially falling to bloat.  but these breeders have been working hard to correct this trend.  now it seems the german showlines are starting down this same path.  only from learning the history of the breed, on both sides of the ocean, can we work to not repeat  our mistakes.

Jennifer

BTW, I would not have an issue with getting a dog from Kaleef, though the price will be higher due to the celebrity status of Dallas

Uberland, see my post in the thread about Erasmus if you want to know my feelings about his death! Yes, 8 years old is FAR too young!

Fairway gsd has done an incredible job crossing german and american lines and putting championships on them.  

 Arlette,

It all depends on what you want to do with the dog..if you want to train for schutzhund, better pic a working line.

If you want a show dog...Kaleef is one of the best kennel in the US. Kaleef Geneva was was #1 herding and GSD last year..I think she is one very good representative of what a GSD should be. Wonderful temperament and excellent conformation (a Dallas daughter). Just came back from the Canadian National and Kaleef Kennel and Kenlyn Kennel presented oustanding animals and erned a couple of Select ( Kaleef Joshua, Bronson Kaleef, Kaleef Jaepaul,  etc..)

I have 3 Dallas Grand daughters, beautiful type and sound caracter coming from these lines (Sir Kenlyn's Aries v Highcliff a Dallas son)..all tree OFA (2 good one excellent) very good health and athletic.

Sunsilver..stating that the fact Dallas die sudenly at 10 is another weakness in AM GSD is one of the supidest comment i've heard..Another Am line bashing for nothing (we are use to it LOL). A lot of german dogs die for nothing everyday..Does it prove that german dogs are less healthier than other?? Well I don't think so!!

I've own Am GSD fr a long time with NO health issue (I have had dysplasia and other trouble with my working dogs tought) Am I bashing the working dogs for that?? NO. For us it feels either you are jealous or really not inform about what is going on in the show ring for trying to bash Am GSD.  Please look at what i happening with the german lines (too much line breeding also) and look at their conformations..(roach back, east west feet, poor angle, steep croup, bloat and I could go on and on) They sometime looks crippled!! I don't think that's what a GSD is supose to look like...

I would buy a Kaleef dog with no problem..and yea they are expensive but if you want to show you dog in the AM ring..it is a good way to start..

Julie

July, ask Louise about the prevalence of 'sudden death syndrome' in American lines shepherds. She's the one who told me about this.

I'm NOT saying it doesn't happen to German lines: do I need to repeat my post from the Erasmus thread verbatim to prove that?? This poster is considering buying from Kaleef: he NEEDS to know about Dallas's unexpected death! I can imagine nothing more heartbreaking than putting your healthy, if somewhat elderly GSD to bed at night, then waking up the next morning to find him cold and stiff!  I believe that is what happened to Dallas, and according to Louise, who championed many American GSD's before switching to German lines, it is an inheritable problem and appears all too frequently in American lines!

 Sunsilver,

You must know that Dallas was on the road about 85% of his life, bred a lot (and I mean a lot) a females, was in the show ring every week-end.  This is not just one schutzhund trial in a year...It is 3 shows (and sometimes more) every week-end. He had a VERY stressful life so for me the fact that he died at age 10 is in fact very good!! He got old before his time and that's happening a lot with dogs that are used and trials over and over..

Maybe he didn't like his retirement LOL!! Like a lot of human..they stop working and they suddenly die!!

Julie

I don't think Sudden death Syndrome is really an illness, I don't know if they have done an autopsy but you never die when nothing is wrong...this is a fact..sometimes they can't see nothing at the necropsy ( my cousin died at 42 and they never found what happened) they didn't call it Sudden death syndrome!! Maybe the heart..maybe a cloth somewhere..we will never know.

July, as far as I know, Dallas may have been retired from the show ring, but he was still healthy and active. He was being trialed in herding at the age of 8, according to Sunshine, another poster on this board, then he died suddenly at the age of 9. I've had dogs get old before their time. I had to put my first GSD to sleep at the age of 9, and believe me, she certainly wasn't up to doing very much in the year preceding her death!

I can't understand why you're getting your back up over this. I am more sympathetic towards the American GSD's than most people on this board, as I own a Dallas grand-daughter. I just want this person to know the facts if he/she is going to buy a dog from these lines!  These things CAN be inherited. It isn't to say they WILL BE, but if I were thinking of a dog from Dallas lines, I'd want to know this sort of thing, and it's not easy information to find out!

I know Sunsilver that you are more sympathetic of Am bred than most on this forum but I just tought you we're a bit hard saying it's another weakness of the Am. bred...like we are the only one with problems..

 All i'm trying to say is wathever type of GSD you purchase you have a good chance of health problems. That's a real shame and it demonstrate the fact that unfurtunatly there is still a lot of breeders who are unscupulous and are breeding without health screening. it also demonstate that genetic is a very complex thing.  Like in human, you can have two perfectly healthy specimens giving life to unhealthy babies..

I think that the GSD has made substancial progress regarding health issue.  We still do not progress regarding show/working type of GSD LOL..

But it wil come..I sure hope!  Julie