Someone please explain WHY - Page 1

Why? Honestly...... I don't understand the SEVERE ANGULATIONS. Will someone explain how these dogs can be balanced? Or healthy for that matter? These hips could not be good.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/518847.html

That poor dog!

Well... basicly he doesn't Have extreme angles...  he's set up great in the front and stretched to the limit in the rear HAS to be uncomfortable... but the person stacking him wuz told that ole back toward the camera's gotta go BACK... *shakes head* a great example of how NOT to stack a dog!!

Here's a dog with more angles than that dog has... but he's comfortable... an one of my very favorites... back to the 70's LOL

It's the handler, not the dog? I can see stacking, but I don't see how that pup could GET into a comfortable position..... But you are probably more knowlageable than I am..... it just looks sooooooo painfull!

BTW Victor is beautiful! Thank you for the comparison

Roger,

His name was Phantom. Thanks Windwalker for pointing him out for everyone.

Caralon's Phantom of Lebarland was not extreme in any way. If American Dogs still looked like him, no one would be complaining. I met Scootie Sherlock who owned him and she said that he was her favorite dog of all time. She could see the influence of Phantom but Shadow was built more like his working lines East German grandfather, David Nebelholz.

My 3/4 American lines 1/4 East German had several dogs in his pedigree who were bred from Caralon's Phantom.

  My Shadow  DDR David Nebelholz

You can see that Caralon's Phantom had a masculine head and shoulders with a short broad muzzle. Quite a contrast to today's feminized narrow steep shouldered American showlines. If only they had not gone down the extreme road led by Covey Tucker Hill. Now I watch in horror as the Germans are creating something almost as obscene-hunch backs.

Michele and Pharaoh

 I'm just learning how to see specific aspects of structure so these threads are very interesting to me, but Frey is still very young given some time and exercise who knows what he'll end up like - not a flattering pict for sure.

What I would love to hear is folks compare 2 similar dogs like Fox Mulder & Caralon's Phantom  - better picts and similar ages.

Susan

 You are right..It's not extreme angles. He is just extremely badly stacked!! Ouch..Like this he looks like he's back is about to break in two.

Now Here's is a bitch with (I would say very good angles) but some are going to say too extreme. She is not cowhock and is OFA excellent .  Another exemple that angulations doesn't go with HP ratings. She was one at the time.

Lots of people just don't know how to stack their dogs.  it's unfortunate for the dog cause they appear with faulty when in fact they are ok. JMO

July9000,

please do not tell me that this bitch is a conformation winner in the American ring?

The ear set is horrific, the stop is insufficient and the coat is against the breed standard. If you show  a fluffy dog like that to an SV judge they would penalize that severely and send you home. And yes, the angles are extreme, and the hocks are not balanced.

That is what turns me off in American GSDs. Of course, I know that there are much better dogs out there, but it is a shame that such poor examples get promoted.

BTW, I agree that it is a shame that dogs like Phantom are no longer in the AKC ring, since he was a really nice dog.

As to the white dog, it is a mute point. White is against the FCI standard. Therefore, that dog does not need to be discussed on a GSD board. Maybe Oli can add a board for the Swissies? My friend has a beautiful JRT, can we discuss him here as well?

 Forgot to tell you that she is a long coat LOL. i just clipped her cause she is always in water or playing in the mud!!

Her ears are ok (but not in this picture) you are right they don't look ok..This was about the first time I stacked her so she was just wondering what I was doing..

I'll try to find another picture to show you..For the hocks..how can you make that kind of statement?? You didn't even see her gaiting..And she is perfectly straight..front and rear..

And I know this is not your kind of GSD.That's fine with me..but if she was short coat..she would win a AKC ring i can tell you that!!

I see a LOT of dogs on this site that I think are very poor exemple of the breed..some think they are beautiful.  I for myself know that there is different kind of GSD's. Working, show, square, over angulated, german style, DDR, AKC etc..etc..The fact is you can choose which one suits you the best. But they are still all GSD to me..even when I don't like them!!