Thoughts On Kennel Raid in West Virginia - Page 1

****Disclaimer****

I did not write the following, but I do have permission to forward it.  Really read this message----and then, start becoming aware.

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I read this article, the WHOLE article, and I am going to make a very un-PC comment here. What the authorities did to this couple was LEGALIZED THEFT. Basically, they were coerced into giving up their livelihood on threat of criminal charges if they didn't. We have been so conditioned to believe the worst when anyone dredges up the ugly word 'puppy mill' that we just sit back complacent and applaud when these 'terrible people' suffer for 'what they did.'

This does not happen to be the only article I have read on this 'rescue.' SEVERAL of them have pointed out that the dogs seem 'pretty well socialized' though they are careful to couch this in terms of 'surprise' considering the 'terrible conditions' they came from. Hmm. For as many dogs as there were on those premises, how surprising is it that there were a few who were unhealthy? To put this in perspective, is it evidence of 'abuse' or 'neglect' if 5 kids out of 100 at a local school look less than healthy; seem underweight or are suffering from some health complaint or another? Or is that pretty normal in a
population that size? I find it hard to believe this kennel was so terribly 'awful' if they had THAT many dogs, and so *many* of them seemed pretty well socialized, and decent weight, etc, ESP in summer time without AC!! And, BTW, when was it ever *mandated* that a kennel has to have AIR CONDITIONING for pity's sake, and that lack of same amounted to 'neglect?' If the dogs were in pens that had NO access to shade, then fine, but that was not the case here. Not ALL dogs live indoors. And it is NOT evidence of 'neglect' if they do not. Is it the way you and I do it? No... but here is an ugly truth, one that nobody other than your resident curmudgeon will raise: Just because WE do things a certain way does NOT mean that everyone who fails to rise to our lofty standards is 'abusive' or 'neglectful.

'

People, we have GOT to stop demonizing people for raising dogs; and
acting as if anyone who does so is suspect for being a 'puppy mill'
etc. Because once the label has been pointed at someone, NOBODY will
*listen* to anything they say in their own defense. Is this fair? When
Animal Control officers come in on a bust like that, they do so
*looking* for abuse and neglect... and they will often 'see' it where
it really isn't. I guarantee you that almost ALL "rescue" people are
this way; listen to the smug, self-congratulatory comments by the
'rescuers' in this case. They *admit* that they are 'surprised' that
the dogs seem to be in good condition... but it didn't stop them from
using LAW ENFORCEMENT to take them away from their rightful caregivers
none the less. And they continue to high-five one another and insist
what a 'great' thing this is.

I gotta ask... is this still America...???!!

Take this away from dogs for a moment, and see if you think this same
situation would be happening if this was a cattle ranch, and *most* of
the animals seemed to be in 'decent shape' on a spread with over 1000
head, but a few seemed to have health issues. Do you think that the
ranchers would not be burning down the state capitol for doing that to
a cattle rancher?? But DOG BREEDERS can be treated that way, because
THEY are *nasty people.* NOT because they are *genuinely* abusing
their stock; these dogs have medical records, have been kept wormed
and inoculated, were fed and watered, etc... but because some bored
middle aged housewives have appointed themselves the Propriety Police,
and insist that every dog that is n

Take this away from dogs for a moment, and see if you think this same situation would be happening if this was a cattle ranch, and *most* of the animals seemed to be in 'decent shape' on a spread with over 1000 head, but a few seemed to have health issues. Do you think that the ranchers would not be burning down the state capitol for doing that to

a cattle rancher?? But DOG BREEDERS can be treated that way, because THEY are *nasty people.* NOT because they are *genuinely* abusing their stock; these dogs have medical records, have been kept wormed and inoculated, were fed and watered, etc... but because some bored middle aged housewives have appointed themselves the Propriety Police,
and insist that every dog that is not being kept to THEIR lofty standards of care and enrichment is being 'neglected.'

Those of you out here in the trenches, fighting the terrible inroads made against us by the Animal Rights humaniacs; those of you in CA fighting 1634 in its endless morphing, do you realize this sort of thing is helping the Enemy? They are doing their level best to try and paint a picture of 'breeders' as nefarious puppy pimps, whose -LEGAL RIGHTS- can be easily and conveniently dispensed with. Because they *deserve* it you see; because they are *nasty people.* How long before YOU are in the crosshairs? You need to understand, EVERYONE who *claims* to love dogs MUST understand: this is all a part of the same thing, it is insidious and it has been going on now, underground, for DECADES. We ignored it for too long; called it a 'lunatic fringe' and figured it would never gain any credence among 'reasonable people.' Well, look around you!! How reasonable is this? How reasonable is 1634, and all the other Forced Sterilization laws that are cropping up all over? How 'reasonable' is Breed Specific Legislation? And yet we see people we otherwise are friends with, buying into the 
lunacy right and left. And leaving behind, utterly, the idea of PEOPLE's rights. They seem to have none. And these 'puppy mill' busts that get such press are used as 'evidence' of what all these Brave New Laws are going to prevent. Isn't that just great? Let's all get on the bandwagon and vote for AB1634!!

I have to ask you all a hard question: is it the *numbers* here that makes you jump to the conclusion that this was a 'mill?' What is the definition of a 'puppy mill?' What 'number' of animals is OK to own, or breed, here in America, before you become a 'puppy mill?' Does it matter if you have staff helping you to maintain them, socialize them, etc? Does it matter if they are well fed and vetted? Or is there some magic number beyond which you are inexcusably a puppy mill? This is
not an idle question, BTW. I live in Oklahoma, where there are ranches that maintain THOUSANDS of head of horses, cattle, sheep, goats, pigs... Who among you is going to make the argument that they do NOT benefit from 'enrichment' in the same way that dogs do, assuming someone took the time to do it? I assure you most horse trainers would beg to differ. And anyone who has ever messed with pigs much can tell you, they can be house trained and learn tricks JUST like a dog; I used to have a roommate who had a 'house pig.' Why are pigs exempt from this reasoning, but dogs are not? Would you feel the same way about a 'horsey mill' being busted like this, for having 'too many horses,' for letting the animals *gasp!* procreate in the field without human intervention, for not keeping them in air conditioned paddocks, for failing to provide them with 'sufficient' human interaction and training and socialization? Even if they were being fed and vetted decently, that's not enough apparently!

What, if any, *rights* do people have, who choose to raise DOGS for a living? And *why* is this so very evil that we may not even speak of it in polite company any more?<

What, if any, *rights* do people have, who choose to raise DOGS for a

living? And *why* is this so very evil that we may not even speak of
it in polite company any more?

I say this fully expecting to be flamed for it, but if it makes even
ONE person sit down and actually *think* about some of the broad
assumptions we make about animal 'welfare,' then I will be satisfied.

Author Known, but not listed....
as Wicked as it gets...
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Her Next Email on the Subject:
 
I understood that, Kathy, and I am sorry that you took my post as being negative about you sending it on. I also understand exactly the question you are asking; having done a lot of rescue here myself. Yes, that is a lot of dogs, and I can't imagine wanting to manage such a headache. Nor am I saying that there are not abusive situations out there. Yes, there are indeed really ugly breeding farms, with dead dogs laying around, layers of uncleaned papers soaked with urine and feces, emaciated dogs kept in rabbit hutches etc etc... But, I know enough about the specifics of this case to be very unhappy with the authorities here. Specifically, if this place was as bad as it is being made out to be in the press, these dogs would not be in 'mostly decent shape' as even the 'rescuers' have admitted.

My problem here is the incessant attack in the media on dog breeding as a nefarious and disreputable enterprise. I happen to disagree. There are people who have spent a lifetime learning about bloodlines, training, attending performance events, etc. They charge, and get, a premium price for their puppies, because they are a cut above average. Is this wrong? WHY??!! It's not wrong for the VET to charge whatever he thinks is reasonable for HIS skills. It's perfectly savory for a
TRAINER to charge whatever the market will bear for HIS skills. A GROOMER on average has far less knowledge of the breeds they are trimming than a breeder does, but it's OK to make your living that way... It's even OK to manufacture food and toys, and market THEM, for pets. But somehow, it has become a badge of honor to go to the poorhouse raising the dogs that these other industries are based on. More than that, we have started, as a society, to take a dim view of
people who actually make money at breeding dogs. And this mindset is reflected, and amplified, with articles like this.

I'm not objecting that you shared it, sorry, it's just that fighting this mindset has become a very serious issue to me in recent years. I can see the handwriting on the wall, that so many so-called 'reputable' breeders seem to refuse to get... THE ARS MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN COMMERCIAL BREEDERS AND US. They consider us *all* to be 'bad' because we are 'exploiting animals' and 'enslaving them' whether we turn a profit OR NOT... Whether our dogs are deliriously happy OR NOT... And the laws that are being enacted all over the country to 'stop the puppy mills!' happen to be aimed AT US. And EVERY time one of these articles gets broad play, it helps their cause and hurts us. :o(

What is worse, is the dog owners and small breeders who play right into their hands. They fail to realize that ordinances like AB1634 apply to *them* too; they are -convinced- that it only means the Bad People, the Puppy Mill People, not THEM. Oh, never THEM. So they are happy to support it, and scoff at we who try to tell them they are setting a noose for themselves. Oh, no, they want to 'stop the puppy mills!' (You know, like that hateful Mrs. Bing, who has TOO MANY
puppies you know *sniff!* how else could she have ten Champions a year?! Maybe if they take HER dogs away, I can actually finish a couple with hers out of the way; she's probably paying off the judges too in order to finish her awful dreck, and *nobody* could give goodcare to THAT MANY DOGS... she deserves it if anybody does!) The ARs  are delighted to blur the distinctions and hammer home the message about how these ordinances will 'stop puppy mills' and 'empty the
shelters' (they won't) and since both of those are desirable goals (who doesn't want to see a day when there are no more pitiful faces behind the wire?) they get the real animal lovers to buy in to their blandishments. It's really, really hard to get people to see how this will hurt them, when they are blinded by a quasi-religious fervor and convinced of their own righteousness.

.. And when they get disabused of that notion the hard way, as their dogs are hauled off to the local 'rescue,' their wails of anguish can be heard for miles... "not ME! Not MY animals! I meant those OTHER guys, NOT ME!"

*sigh* Reverend Neimoller had it right. So did whoever wrote the quote attributed to Caesar (who didn't actually say it, but it's still relevant:)"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch, and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of his citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so..." This is precisely what the ARs have been doing for the past 20 yrs, and they
are finally beginning to cover real ground. The proof of this is in the fact that bills are being proposed and given SERIOUS
consideration, that would have been laughed out of the legislator's offices a mere decade ago. Now, rather than being ruthlessly squelched, it is becoming harder and harder to get people to *see* why they are a bad thing. Why? Their minds have been poisoned by the incessant drumming of "Breeders are bad. Breeders are evil. Breeders abuse dogs/cats." And it's happening across the nation, it isn't just California. Dallas just passed a *horrible* new Forced Sterilization law. Chicago is under attack, as is VA, FL, etc etc... it is popping up like poisonous mushrooms all over the place.

***Altho, this woman has written more on the subject, I think this has stated some good stuff****

I'll tell you who else had it right. Hermann Goering in his comments at the Nuremberg Trials. It's even more disturbing to hear it from one of the worst criminals in the 21st century, but when you consider how the German people were brought to embrace Nazism so completely, despite how most *reasonable* people are appalled by fascism, you begin to see the corollaries with the AR's and the war on animal ownership. And it's hard not to learn the lesson that yes, even reasonable people can behave badly and make poor decisions if they are misled. Goering explained, in detail, how one whips up the masses and convinces them to act against their own best interests: "...it's the leaders... who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in every country."

Why do I couch this in terms of war? Because THAT IS WHAT IT IS, guys. Our way of life, owning and loving our dogs, is under relentless attack. That is not hyperbole, it is the truth. The ARs believe that we do not have a symbiotic relationship with our animals; they believe absolutely that pet ownership is 'slavery' and they are working passionately towards the day when it will be completely OUTLAWED. And they have adopted Goering's explanation; they got their playbook straight out of Mein Kampf. First, you have to have a 'bad guy,' and you have to make him look as horrible as you possibly can. Do  whatever you have to, lie as much as necessary, exaggerate as much as possible, and KEEP doing it over and over. It does not matter if it is true or NOT, as long as your message is consistent. Once this 'bad guy' has been identified, the next step is to whip the 'mob' up against the appointed straw man. After that, things will take care of themselves, and you can sit back complacently while otherwise reasonable, decent people do very unreasonable and indecent things to their  neighbors. It happened in Germany yes, but so many people are so arrogant as to believe that it could never happen here. Such naivete would be charming if it were not so deadly dangerous. It *is* happening here, one bad law, one bad ordinance, at a time. And all of them are put forth as being 'for the good of the animals.' Now, who wants to be *against* that?! It puts you firmly in the Devil's camp, and nobody listens to him. And so it goes... RIGHT here, in Dallas and elsewhere. Right now. IN America. And it's coming soon to a city near YOU.

Kathy, I do understand what you were getting at. None of us would be ready for a rescue of that size, the numbers boggle the mind. But, my own concerns here go deeper than that. I am concerned about 'rescue' of our way of life, from those who have put us all under the gun. If you own a dog, a cat, heck a hamster, then this IS your fight, too. If we don't stop making it "ok" to deprive people of their PERSONAL PROPERTY on specious grounds, then we will have NO right to complain
when they come to relieve US of OUR pets. I know many people are shaking their heads as they read this, thinking, yeah right, what a hysterical alarmist, that will never happen. Well, 20 years ago I would not have believed that any reasonable person would be in favor of Breed Specific Legislation, but now it's common place, and I hear 'reasonable' people make excuses for it all the time. Even other DOG people, who should damn well know the danger. Ten years ago, I would
have had a hard time believing that Forced Sterilization would

Ten years ago, I would have had a hard time believing that Forced Sterilization would gain as much ground, as quickly as it has, but my experiences in the trenches with BSL had made me a *little* less credulous, and less willing to depend on 'common sense' to prevent such crap from taking hold. Now I have no illusions left. And I am working to rip the veil from as many of my fellow dog owners as I can. The Enemy is at the gates, and we are here with our pants down. So, we can do one of two things. We can just surrender, let them have their way, restrict and legislate the GOOD breeders out of existence in our zeal to get the nasty 'puppy mills,' and watch the incremental death of pet ownership in this country. It's already dropping.

Or you can join me in grabbing whatever weapon you can find at hand, and run naked into the fray screaming defiance. My dogs, my FRIENDS, my *family,* deserve no less dedication. One of the 'weapons' we can use is to stop assuming every time someone squeals "Puppy mill!" that it IS one. We need to stop excusing the *theft* of personal property, whether by coercion as in this case, or by shelter or 'rescue' group fiat. We need to stand up as Americans and say, NO! We have LAWS here, and DUE PROCESS. We do *not* coerce people into giving up their animals by threat of prosecution; either they are guilty of abuse and neglect and *should* be prosecuted, OR NOT. And if the prosecutor's office was *made* to back up those accusations in a court of law instead of 'winning' by intimidation, a lot of these people who are stamped as 'animal abusers' would not only be free, but still with their animals. (And the shelters and 'rescues' who led the charge(s)
would be out the monies for their 'fostering' of dogs they never had a right to take, and their wrongful accusations would give them the public black eye they deserve, instead of being hailed as 'saviours' and having a lucrative little windfall of 'adoption fees' and donations to call on for their crimes.) It is getting really ugly out here. And it will only get worse unless we are *all* on our guard, all the time, against this game plan. Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm all out of tender these days. The ARs have sanded it away. :o(

Author Known

Whoever the "Known Author" is has a very bleek view of people that rescue animals. It sounds as though the author feels that all rescues are flag waving PETA advocates. This couldn't be more untrue! Most animal rescuers think that PETA is a bunch of crap and that the people involved are a bunch of lunatics.

As someone who is the co-founder of a rescue and knows many, many other rescuers I have yet to find another rescuer that thinks people should not own pets. If it were true that we didn't want people to own pets, why do we spend so much of our time trying to place them in homes? Why do so many of us spend our last bit of money to buy them food when we know we might not eat for a day or so? Wouldn't it be much easier and cheaper to euthanize them?

As someone who is the co-founder of a rescue, owns rescued dogs, and, also owns AKC registered, purebred dogs that were bought from breeders, I find it remarkable that so many who feel their rights are being abused fail to understand that the present way isn't working. Feel free to go to any pound in a rural area. I say this because animals at pounds in rural areas go there to die. In most areas they have seven days if brought in as a stray. If you bring in your own pet it has three days, then it is dead! If 25-30 million animals dieing in shelters and pounds per year is okay because some of your rights might be taken away then I guess we as a country and society have our morals mixed up. While on the subject of the numbers of animals dieing the 25-30 million is a grossly underestimated figure. This figure is based on what is reported by the pounds and shelters. Most of them do not keep good records. The numbers are much, much higher. Most of the pounds do not even keep records on the number of cats they euthanize. It isn't just old Rover, who lived a good life, or the 16 year old cat that is getting put down. It is countless scores of litters of puppies and kittens because of blatant irresponsibility of the owners of the parents of the puppies and kittens. These also are rarely counted as a euthanasia or they will count the whole litter as one euthanasia.

 

 

 

(con't)

Rescues do not want to shut down people that are responsible breeders. It is hard sometimes for rescuers to not feel that all breeders are part of a problem when we watch so many animals die needlessly because of irresponsible humans, but, we are all smart enough to know the difference.

We have a major problem here in this country. (Feel free to come look at the 17,000 emails in my inbox for some of the animals needing out of pounds here in Illinois alone) We are a country that prides itself on taking the initiative to right wrongs. The author compares the efforts of rescuers in this country to Nazi Germany and points out the potential dangers of such. I would also like to comment on how playing the "Rights" card can be equally as dangerous. How many of you that are so concerned about your rights actually understand what it means? When was the last time you actually read the Constitution or the Bill of Righst? Don't get me wrong, I am politically conservative, but, sometimes you have to look beyond a philosophy in order to make progress. If not we will always be digging in and fighting wars of attrition where nothing gets accomplished. 

In my opinion, if we had a situation where the good quality breeders would get together with the rescuers and form a sort of coalition we might actually see progress. I know that there are many, many breeders out there who lose money because there are so many bad quality breeders out there. How many times have you had someone say to you "Why would I pay you $2500 (or whatever amount) for that puppy? I saw the same thing in the newspaper for $300." I am sure that you tell them then this isn't the type of puppy for you and shrug it off as another "idiot". Is this really good for the breed? In my opinion you just lost the opportunity to educate someone. As a good breeder you like to say that you are a "guardian of the breed". How is this so if you won't do anything to stop the people who are breeding crappy dogs? If it were a little tougher for everyone to be a breeder we might actually see the overall quality of the dogs go up and with it the price that you can charge for them. Simple law of supply and demand.

I can see both your points and agree with both of you.  There are good hard working people trying to rescue dogs, cats, etc. animals who are truely in need because many people are just idiots but not all people.  These days there are often hateful people who will go to any length to cause you pain and heardship because they are simply mad or jealous.  The main issue should not be the number of animals on their property but the condition of the animals.  Having said that, keep in mind animals get hurt, they get sick and they have periods in their life when they don't look so hot under normal conditions.  In those situations, it takes time to be corrected.  This is true of even the best cared for animals.  If only a few animals were in poor condition they should have been taken for evaluation to determine if it was due to neglect, genetics, accident, etc. 

I understand your concerns Dog Trainer, when you question if we still live in America, the land of the free.  We are loosing rights and freedom on a daily basis.  Rights and freedoms that our fore fathers and military personnel have and/or are dying to protect.  There has got to be some common sense when dealing with complaints and accusations against someone.  I do not know who these people are or what the truth is but if the majority of the dogs were in good condition and well socialized they should not have been removed.  I don't see the goverment taking children away from mothers who are collecting welfare while not skipping a beat to have more to collect on.  Please don't get me wrong everyone goes throught rough times requiring help from time to time but there are obviously abusers in the system.   

I would imagine this couple has sold dogs and has witnesses and/or friends and family who can attest to the condition and care provided these dogs.  I would find an Attorney to sue for their financial losses, etc. Someone filed a report against this couple and that is public record, I would go after them too.  Having said that this is a battle with the Government and they have bigger pockets and resources.  If I was involved in this situation and I was in the right (took good care of my dogs, which I do) I would not give up my dogs regardless of any threats from anyone.  I would tell them to file their papers and I'll see you in court.  Not everyone is willing to fight even when they are in the right, that is just individual differences in people.  We have been raised, OK I was raised to believe that all adults. doctors, teachers, etc are right and not to argue with them, do as they say.  That was back when most people were good and had moral and ethical backbone.  l raised my 3 children to think for themselves, trust their gut and stand up for their rights because I could not always be there to protect them.  I have 3 beautiful strong willed young women that I am very proud of in spite of the fact they were a little lippy as teenagers, they were able to stand up for themselves.          

Teri