Interesting article, please comment... - Page 1

http://dog.co.il/gsdnew/gsdnew/iwgsdc.htm

"A test that provides information about the dog's true character and how it behaves in unfamiliar situations."
~Das Schaferhund Magazine, August 2008

How would you standardize that?  Could it only be tested once, and if done incorrectly, not repeated without causing familiarization?

The article makes perfect sense. Reality training would be the only way to truly assess a dog.

To me, Schutzhund training is to Reality, like point Karate is to Kick Boxing. In point Karate no face contact is allowed. Fighters are seperated after each point scored, and 3 points decides a winner. Students are taught to pull punches. They are taught that if needed, the punch could be extended. This all sounds good, but in reality, one reacts as one trains. If they train throwing pulled arm punches, then if faced in a realistic situation, they will react as they train. Hence the fact of thousands and thousands of Black Belts who can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. If they got punched in the face, they would fold like a cheap suit.

The Boxer or Kick Boxer train and spar full contact. They get used to being punched in the face, and learn how to react to an opponent who is really trying to Knock them out.  Very few point fighters, have the intestinal fortitude (GUTS), to make the transition into full contact.

I have seen Schutzhund workouts. It was fairly easy to see the dogs that were more serious, and the dogs that felt it was more of a game.  If tests were devised, to really measure the heart of a dog, some owners would find it cruel to be sure. It would however seperate the bluff from the real deal.  I would think the helper would need a full body suit, and even a face cage, and be allowed to really put in on the dog.

Reality isn't Pretty, but Pretty is, as Pretty does.

I just skimmed the article but I have never agreed with these test's being a true measure of the dog.

And in my opinion there is so much more to a GSD that is never addressed because only the owner could have knowledge of these thing's from experience over time.

Real life.

I agree, even though I like the idea of Schutzhund, its better than nothing.

In theory sounds very appealing, but still largely subject to interpretation and experience of the person conducting the evaluation.  A list of things to evaluate for, is very different than creating a uniformly standardized method for evaluating them.  I've even got  my own Evaluation for Work And Temperament, but it's still "quick and dirty", and largely subjective to my personal interpretation.

Great chart Daryl,

One thing I have noticed is that calmness and stable temperament are being systematically bred out of the Schutzhund dogs. They get labled "pets" and are sold to "pet homes" and are therefore gone from the gene pool. German Shepherd temperaments are becoming indistinguishable from the Malinois. Hyper-reacive.

The DDR numbering system was an excellent shorthand for all those qualities and helped breeders when choosing combinations.

Michele and Pharaoh

I read the whole article and have to agree with what is being said. I would love to see a group that is looking past the $$$$ aspect, getting back to the basics and the true working German Shepherd. I have my opinions but they are just that opinions and not everyone will agree.

EK

I tend to agree with the article also. I remember reading an article once in USA, Dog World or Fancy, some magazine anyway. It was an interview with Max v Stephanitz daughter. I am not sure if it was the interview with Wynn Strickland or not. But there was some mention of Max worrying that schutzhund would be the downfall of the breed. Do any of you remember an article like that, it was maybe 12 or more years ago? I have looked online and thru some "old" magazines I had kept but can't find it. Maybe it was a dream I had ...