Raw Feeding and Salmonella ??? - Page 1

Question for you who feed raw...  Whats the chance of contamination between dog and human (children)?  How would this happen and is it a realistic concern? 

Sannan :)

Sannan,

I would say the chance of passing something is not out of the question at all.   Even with store bought dry dog food I would treat it the same way.   Keep separate from human food , wash everything that come's in contact with it, not just hand's.

I wash out my food bowl's every day, then my hand's.    I do no less with what we buy and prepare for the family when it come's to meat, egg's, and fish.    I wash all veggie's too.  And guard against cross contamination.

Brent.

Six kids (three mine, three stepchildren lest you think I'm a walking baby machine.  LOL).  Youngest is in his 20's now.  Many dogs over the years including rescues.  Years of raw feeding (started before my youngest was even born).  Never had an issue. 

Practice standard kitchen cleanliness around raw meats.  Rinse meats before packaging into meals.  Wash cutting boards, (do not use wooden cutting boards for meats, green tripe) knives, meat cleaver, hands and avoid cross-contamination.  No different than prepping your own meats for dinner.  I don't feed veggies or grains.  Dog don't need them.

Feed in stainless steel bowls in their crates, doors closed and allow them to remain in their crates for a bit.  Mine were all crated, doors closed for the meal and about 15-20 minutes afterwards. Bowls come out for cleaning and stacked for next meal.  Dogs are released.   The 15-20 minutes was only to allow the natural enzymes in a dogs mouth to neutralize bacteria if it was present.  I don't remember where I learned that should be done.  It's been too many years ago.  I assume it works.  Never had any of the kids get sick (salmonella) picking up the bowls as they often did after meals or feeding the meals and never got salmonella myself. Hands were washed after handling the bowls. None of the dogs have ever gotten salmonella either.

I'd worry more about rancid commercial feeds first.  Often not stored properly for the ingredients in them in the stores then again in the home.

It would be a valid concern if the standard kitchen meat handling cleanliness wasn't practiced.  Just as it would with our own food.  I've never heard of a child getting Salmonella from a dog. 

 

 

http://raingoddess.com/vetmed/rawfood.html

< think that you can reduce any potential risk of food poisoning related to dogs by simply having good hygiene - scrupulously washing your hands after cleaning up after your dog and washing up thoroughly before eating. Keeping the dog itself clean probably doesn't hurt, either. And it would make sense to avoid letting your dog lick you right after eating a chicken neck. For these reasons, I think that someone with pets and toddlers might want to avoid raw diets because small children will not follow the above rules. Kids often will let the dog lick their face any old time, and they may even try to taste the dog's meals. (Sato et al. 2000.) >
 

Sue-Ann, did you read my post?

Particularly the part about cleanliness and how long the dogs remain crated after eating?

That's been going on in my household since before my youngest was born and he's in his 20's now.

by Sue-Ann on 27 August 2008 - 11:08
I think that someone with pets and toddlers might want to avoid raw diets because small children will not follow the above rules. Kids often will let the dog lick their face any old time, and they may even try to taste the dog's meals.

This is laughable.  Wake up!  Kids don't follow rules at that age. Parents need to supervise. (What a concept.)  Parents need to teach the toddler or small child the rules and keep them out of harm's way.  (The harm I speak of is the dog who will snap, bite and scar them over food.  A food agressive dog.).  I have to say I don't know of any idiot that would let a toddler or small child (define the ages of small child, please) feed the family dog. 

"Toddlers" in my home were supervised by my husband while I fed.  Small children, the same.  Dogs crated.  Eat.  Stay for 15-20 minutes.

Those "toddlers" grew.  Imagine that?  When they got to the age that they wanted to "help Mommie" (about 6 years old as I recall) it was ok, feed this bowl to XXX and to the other, feed this bowl to XXX.  My two safest that were well versed and wouldn't leave the crate.  The dogs knew the rules.  The children were learning.  When fed, "Hands UP! Come here and let's wash!".  It was a game to the children and that included a niece and nephew ages 8 and 9 who were staying with us.  Interesting that at about 9 years old my two youngest would ask me, "Mommie, did you wash that?".

For what it's worth, before I read about keeping them crated for a short time for the enzymes in the saliva to work we'd release the dogs after feeding and take up the bowls.  Can't tell you how many times the children were licked by those poor, contaminated dogs (LOL) but I do know they never got "Salmonella" and in fact rarely had any other illnesses either.

You did this in another post.  Stop blaming it on the ****gasp**** SALMONELLA!!!!! that's so sensationalized in the media.

VETMED?  Most vets are clueless about nutrition. 

 

 

Reason asking is I have six, yes six children... 12,9,5,4,2,and 10 months, (hubby's Italian) LOL 

Anyway, Most of our dogs are never fed in the house.  Always fed in their kennel, yards from the house.  However we have a couple dogs we are training, in the house that are around our children most of the time.  I try to separate outside for meal time, and then they remain outside after eating for quite a while.  We have a 10 month old and our dog does lick his face sometimes.  Especially when there are "leftover" goodies on his face.  Una tends to mother the kids.  We are scrupulous about hand washing and I wash out bowls after each meal.  Of course I am very conscience about cleaning after prep of any meal including our own.  I am also not a paranoid maniac....  If so, I wouldn't even let my baby crawl on the ground or floor or ride in a grocery cart !!  I cant even imagine how many dog hairs he has probably eaten even after vacuuming ten times that day...  I was just curious.  My dogs never really did "great" on kibble.  They are really changing on the raw diet.  Best choice I have made for them.  I come from a small town and the people are converting....  Yes, to RAW!!  Even the old farmers.  One just gave us a 300 LB Heifer to help feed the pack.  All advise is greatly appreciated.  Have a great day!!

 

Shannan  :)

ROFLMAO!  Poor Shannan. (Irish/Catholic here.)  You have your hands full and one raising the other.

I can't tell you the number of times Virgie (our old girl long gone) cleaned my two youngest's faces before I could get the facecloth to them.  LOL.  Go to sink to warm-water cloth, turn around to see job done?  Child giggling? 

And the high-chair tray.  And the floor around the high-chair.  And their little hands that they put in their mouths.  Seems to me as I recall the last thing cleaned was their face. LOL

No telling how many times they put hands in mouths after the dogs cleaned them.

Mine still got face and hands (and legs sometimes) washed with a facecloth afterwards.  Tray and chair and table (older ones) and floor got cleaned as normal. Did they put their hands in their mouths first?  Couldn't say.  I was at the sink getting the facecloth ready.  Could I guess?  Yep!

Like I said.  Six reared.  No incidents of salmonella in me or the children. 

 

 

Oh yes, never a dull moment here!!  Face rag?  What face rag?  LOL  You have described the story of my life!  Four are going to school this year, WOO HOO!!  What a party for me.

Shannan  :)

Scratch that.  Soak 1/4 of one towel.  Drape it over your shoulder.  (Prepare to have to change shirt and bra and suffer "wet boob".  At least the towel will cover that for unexpected visitors). 

Use one end to wash faces and hands and the other end to dry them.

Toss in the laundry that you have so much free time to do and repeat in the afternoon just before dinner.

You'll be happy when those years end and sorry to see those years go.  Talk about a mixed blessing.  LOL

 

 

I feed a commercially prepared frozen raw dog food to my pup. The procedure is simple, allow food to partially thaw in fridge for approx 12  hours, finish thaw by placing food (still in plastic packaging) in a bowl of warm water for 5 to 10 minutes, agitate frequently, place contents into the dogs bowl and feed.

There is never any left over and the bowl is washed immediatly after feeding. The prep area and utensils are cleaned immediatly with antibacterial soap and  hot water . 

in my case, I don't believe the food is left sitting long enough to cause any issues from feeding. There certainly is the possibility of E. Coli  contamination from fecal matter, but as many studies have shown, dogs fed a raw diet don't have a monopoly on this.  Basically, don't let the dog foul areas where the kids play (raw diet or otherwise).

As for contamination from a dogs saliva; A study conducted at the University of California, Davis showed that dog salivia is certainly an "inhibitor" and has mild "killing" properties. Again, this would suggest a similar risk from Kibble (add that kibble may also contain mold spores).

Further, Salmonella is almost completely eradicated when frozen at temp of 0 degrees C for a period of 48 hours, E. coli experiances the same eradication after a period of 1 to 2 weeks.

Summary; When feeding raw, try and eradicate the presence of bacterins by freezing before serving. Clean  prep areas immediatly after use and never leave raw food sitting. - Common sense really!