In Kennel VS Private Training VS Group Classes - Page 1

There are pros and cons of each....here are my thoughts on it.(PS, Preston, I am really sorry your friend got screwed....is the trainer a member of APDT or IACP or NADOI?  If so, file complaints)

Group Classes:

Pros:   Relatively inexpensive, plenty of socialization for your dogs

Cons:  Some dogs are "unmanagable" in that enviornment---either aggressive or goofy, student:teacher ratio.

Private Classes
Pros:  One-On-One training, more focused on problem areas

Cons:  Must be consistant, willing to practice, can be more expensive

Board/Trains

Pros:  Trainers are usually more consistant.  Can co-incide(spelling) with a vacation or something.

Cons:  Expensive, if the trainers can't communicate to the owner how to handle the dog it does no good, is the facility clean?  Safe? etc...

I tell my owners the following:

1)  If you are going on vacation and going to board the dog anyway, you might as well kill two birds with one stone.

2)  If you cannot be consistant in both time spent training and corrections/praise send the dog out.

3)  If you do not have the time to train.

4)  If you are sooooo frustrated with the problems that the next imminent step is getting rid of the dog....

5)  If there is a household member who is in fear, or stressed because of the dog.

Any trainer should willingly provide professional and client references.

Do not do anything without a contract outlining everyone responsibilities, and failsafes, etc...

Stay away from any trainer who "guarantees" their work(impossible and unethical, as trainer can't make you keep up on training and dogs are breathing beings who do change sometimes over time.) 
 

Trainer should provide a manual(owners manual), private handling lessons, etc...

Trainer should be willing for you to see the premises prior to training.  Many trainers DO NOT allow clients to see dogs during training, as sometimes this is disruptive.  I do, but many do not.

There are no "miracle" board/trains.  It generally takes 21 days to learn a behavior reliably.  Yes, I can teach a dog a few things in a week, but I prefer to allow the dog to adjust to the enviornment for the first three days, and simply learn house manners and form a bond.

All that said, I sent Gallon, my male out for training.  I keep in regular contact with the trainer.  I did not have the facilities to get his Sch. 1 on him down here, without spending the next 9 months doing it.  It was better to send him out for 3-4 months, and just as cost effective for me. 

Just a few thoughts from the grumpy lady in SE Florida....

You forgot to add that the trainer should forward regular progress reports, preferably with pix and/or video clips. I don't have a formal training contract. Owners/guests are always welcome to come visit, even on short notice. My place is anything BUT fancy. Aesthetics are pretty far down the list around here... The house is always messy, but the kennels are clean and fresh smelling, dogs happy and well cared for, and the training is correct. 

If they want life-time white PVC post and rail fencing, perfectly groomed lawns and professional landscaping, stone stancions and wroght iron gates at the street, mood lighting and a spotless kitchen without piles of papers and dog dishes on the counters, a shiny new van with custom graphics in the driveway, they can go pay twice as much somewhere else. Ha ha ha.

SS

If we're talking about pet training, or the "work and jerk" method, I think the group classes are the best.  Like you said, it is great for distractions and socialization.  Why not proof your training around a bunch of dogs that are out of control and "goofy"?  Are the dogs in the "real world" all trained and civilized?  Plus, the biggest reason group classes are the best is because it is 90% training the handler and 10% training the dog.  You have proven this by stating that you can train the dog while they are on vacation.  I know my vacations never exceed 2 weeks, so I would expect that we are really using the "work and jerk" method to quickly get results. 

I know if I am ever asked where to take a dog, I always recommend that they find a facility that offers the lifetime training where they can go any night or day that they choose.  These 5 week classes that meet once a week are garbage.  They are almost the same price but you only have 5 sessions and after five weeks you get a piece of paper and a partially trained dog.

If someone is going to do the drop-off or board and train, they should make sure that it includes the group training and everyone in the family can come and handle the dog.  Dogs are like kids.  They realize very quickly what they can get away with when they are with each person in the house.

Don,

I don't like to have some out of control dogs in my classes, without a few privates first.

Too many times, I have seen idiots not understand "DO NOT GO NEAR THAT DOG.  HE WILL BITE" and they do it anyway.  I don't want the liability.

I do pet training, and assistance dogs, so that is my basic premise.

I take alot of flack at Schutzhund for expecting my dogs to do a down/stay while other dogs are out on the field working.  However, I have MS, limited strength sometimes....Gallon weighs 80lbs or so, and I weigh 160lbs.  I have to have absolute control over him.  Period.  End of sentence.  Anyway, I digress...

As to offering Lifetimes...I do, for an extra fee, however, I tell people not to mess with it, because....They always are welcome to "board" their dogs with me after training for $20-$30 per day(comparable to boarding facilities in my area), and the dogs get worked while they are here, regardless----maybe not as constructively as during training.

I do use a prong for most training, including B/T's, however, I am big on using food and toys to motivate as well.  All dogs work for their dinner around here.  And, they are living in my house.

As SS said, my house may be cluttered, but, it is always clean(I mop daily, and pooper scoop 2 times daily, sometimes more.  Power wash every week, and hose down with bleach or viniger every other day, unless we are having a monsoon....Smile.

Right now there are 12 dogs here, and you would never know it by smell or sound.

I used to offer groups as well----I don't anymore.....but, when I did, people were always free to come to class free for the life of the dog----and that included anyone just coming for group classes----once they paid, they were never turned away---ever.  I found that most would come a few times per year for brush up work.

Shelly, I don't let folks visit, unless it is an extended stay and there are kids involved, HOWEVER, I do allow them to call(I have 2 Beagles and a Cocker in right now, and the woman calls 3 times per day!) all they want, and they can park and observe if they want.  I usually take the dogs to an outdoor cafe(BaJa's) after about the 4-5 day of training and munch on chips/salsa and read----so they are welcome to "observe" from a distance.

I try to do a video of dogs in training, but that doesn't always happen, and I frequently do pics and email them for them, plus the pics go in the manual with instructions(visual cues).

For advanced/degree training, especially if time is an issue I have gone for a professional train/board situation (when I was still working).  It's not that I didn't have the handling ability to train the dog myself, but didn't have the time to prep the dog for a routine.  Actually I leased a couple of my dogs to a breeder/trainer in exchange for doing their basic AKC CD  and TT. Pvt lessons I'd recommend for dogs with specific behavioral problems as they can be done in the exact envrionment and situation that creates the problem.

For general basic obedience for a house pet I go for the group classes.  Used to teach such classes with a friend. We team taught... one running the class, one working pvtly @ same time with difficult dogs, or owners who either just didin't "get it" or thought they already knew it all. We prefered the Teenage slightly delinquent dogs (say 10 months -2 years) who got ignored by the owner cause they were just soooooooooo cute... til they got so big!!  Think My working for a vet, and my friend being the Town Canine Officer had much to do with our  choice.  I used to tell the class I was half drill sargent and half stand up comic. I still hear from them... I agree two of the biggest plus' of group classes are the cost, and the socialization. We had people who kept coming back for class after class, and had to expand into some agility and games to keep things interesting. the "advanced" folk became a kind of club more than anything else. The beginer class was set up so that folks could go from there for more training for a degree, but the class wasn't aimed at even AKC obedience titles.  Just to get the dogs under control and listening to their owners. 

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Videos of the dogs' progress ARE tough. The files are usually too big to e-mail, so I post them as Quick-time clips on a private page of my website and send the owner the link, then replace them as the dog progresses further. the owners can download and save the clips if they want. My old pocket digital doesn't include sound, but at least they can SEE their dog working. One of these days when I get rich doing this I'll buy some better equipment. LOL

I do let owners visit, but not for the first month or so, so their presence doesn't interfere with the bonding process between me and the dog.

SS

I'll throw my 2 cents in here, since I do all 3 types of training as well.

Dogs with behavioral problems like extreme fearfullness, rebellion, aggression, do not belong in a beginner obedience class without a few private lessons.  I will, however, permit an aggressive dog if the owner will bring the dog to class on a muzzle.  Many people cannot afford privates and I understand that but it my responsibilty to keep my clients and their dogs safe.

I will often not approve a dog who has passed beginner to go on to intermediate (off leash) without a few lessons to smooth out the transition and improve their skills before the leash comes off.

In lessons, my goal is to always get the handler skilled enough to work their own dog while I coach them through what we are doing. In the beginning, I will often work the dog for a bit to get the ideas we're working on that day to sink in before I hand the dog back to the owner.

And for boarding and training, owners may observe behind a glass door. Seeing the owner before the dogs gets to go home messes them up emotionally, I prefer not to do it. The owner must schedule a pick up lesson, and follow up lessons so they learn to use the tools I've given them properly.

As for distraction as Don mentioned- A trainer who knows their business will make sure to proof a dog under the distraction of other dogs no matter what program the owner is using!  Even if I have to take out my own dog and have her "giblaut" and run around like a fool.

It's a good life, isn't it, being paid to do what we love.

Very good post, TheDog Trainer.  The lady I mentioned who has come to this forum for years is not a friend of mine, but someone who contacted me for help out of desperation and being unable to live with it any longer.  She was so terrorized that she was afraid to go to the authorities.  Remember this man threatened to destroy her and her GSDs if she ever talked.  There are also other details and evidence to her story that make it very believable and suggest that have given her good reasons to be afraid.  Threats against her had included threats of watching her and the perp doesn't live very far from her kennel.  She has felt cyber stalked on this forum by him under several nam de plums.  So she has been living in fear.  I have contacted a federal official with her permission for help for her situation.  This individual is one single isolated case and other dog trainers should not be blamed for his scam. All legitimate dog trainers will want this person brought to justice or at least exposed for what he has done to this lady.  Top trainers welcome questions and openness and provide names and phone numbers of previous customers for reference.  They have nothing to hide and are proud of their success.

Thanks for the useful advice on checking for the perps membership in these organizations.  In no way should her horrible treatment by this perp be assumed to be the norm for any in home training services.  This is one particular trainer out east that advertises the psychological training of dogs, no-one else is involved.  I want to make it very clear that most dog trainers are good folks and want to deliver very high quality services to byuild their reputations and success.

I hope that folks present any good experiences with trainers and training on this forum and credit for good work where it is due. I had some specialized training done by Red Star Kennels of Wisconsin done some years back that was outstanding in every way.  They have done extremely high quality in home training, and also many kinds of specialized training at their kennel. I cannot recommend them highly enough.  Before I used Red Star Kennels they answered all my questions and gave me many references to contact, which I did and found them very positive. Also, I can highly recommend Larry Filo of Steinig Tal Kennels in Campbellsport, Wisconsin who has run a set of very excellent profressional training classes for service and police dogs at a college for many years.  Also, over the years Larry has bred and trained some very top GSDs in Schutzhund, with many of them coming from V rated in conformation sires and dams.