longevity and dog food??? - Page 1

I wonder what the secret to longevity in our dogs is. My GSD that lived the longest was a poorly backyard bred American GSD (I didn't know any better at the time) and she was raised on Purina Dog Chow (again, didn't know any better back then).  Lived to be about 14 years. Since then, most of my "well-bred working dogs" have not made it to 9 years of age. A Lord son died at 8 from bloat. A Mink son died at 8 from DM. Just lost my Czech dog to bone cancer at the age of 9. All were fed "premium" commercial dog foods such as ProPlan, Royal Canin, Nutromax, etc.  Any ideas? I sure would like for a dog to make it to 12.

Is there any relation between longevity and dog food.  I don't know, but since switching to raw feeding we haven't lost a dog below the age of 13.  Last year we lost one 2 weeks short of his 15th birthday, boy we thought the old guy was going to make 15.

Currently we have one who is coming up to his 14th birthday and 3 that have just turned 11 and another who has just turned 10. All still very hale and hearty.

Do we think it is switching to raw feeding that has made the difference, yes we also seem to visit the vets a lot less.

Jess

I have to believe a  quality diet is the key ingrediant for a GSD to lead a long happy life.  Raw being the best because you control what your dog eats not some commerical kibble company.

But with that said a 15 year old  she will be 16 in 3 weeks 100% American GSD female lives down the street from me who has never eaten anything but Purina dog chow in her entire life.  She is very happy and healthy and loves to romp around with my year and a half old GSD who I have on a BARF diet.  Now you tell me!!!

I would have to say the secret to longevity is raw feeding and and a chemical free life. My male is 9 years old and looks far younger than other dogs his age. Since I have changed to raw feeding I have seen a 90% reduction in vet bills related to health issues that in itself should speak volumes about the benefits of a raw diet.

Cheryl

Can't say.  I haven't raised but two start to finish on kibble.  They lived to 6 and 9 and had health problems.  I know I've had a lot of longevity and good health with mine on a raw diet.  Vet's hate me because they don't make any money off me.  I know a lot of raw feeders with that complaint.

I DO know that I had a strange experience on raw.  We rescued a reportedly spayed 5 or 6 years old female 15 years ago or thereabouts. Skin and bones and not much coat and it was a couple of weeks before she could walk more than the distance to go outside to go to the bathroom.

Same female got bred/pregnant at about 8 years old.    We had no idea she was in heat and no reason to think that she would be.  She was spayed and never came into heat before that in the 2 years we had her.  We were keeping another bitch that was in heat at that time and assumed that the blood drops we saw were from her. 

Long story short I cut the old girls food back because she was gaining too much weight.  Didn't work.  Trip to the vet.  Bloodwork.  Xrays.  Pregnant.   I'm shocked.  Vet's shocked.  Spay scheduled and performed the next morning.  (Before the yahoos get going with the bashing it was the safest thing for the bitch.)  That girl went on to live to 12 years old.

Vet and I came to the conclusion that it wasn't until she got back to seriously good health and good food and "all systems normal" as she called it was the old girl able to have a heat and be bred.  It took a long time but when I first saw her the vote was to put her to sleep.  There was something in her eyes that begged not to yet so I took her home.  My vet wasn't a fan of my raw feeding until then.  It was the only thing that she could attribute the incident to.

Hi guys,can someone please give some examples of exactly what they are feeding there dogs please?I am thinking of doing the switch AGAIN.It seems that every time that i have tried raw i have had the vets tell me that i am looking for trouble cause there is NO SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH .Needless to say,here we are back on kibble and YES i too am so pissed at ALL the dog food companies cause it seems like its all the same when you educate yourself as to whats REALLY in the formulation.Im tired of feeding my boys ,rendered fat,rendered meat and God only knows what else.Please ,if someone would be kind enough to elaborate a little i would appreciate it.Thanks

Dominic

                 If you want to stay with kibble take a look at Orijen  www.championpetfoods.com.  Raw is great but can be complicated.  An alternative to raw is Urban Wolf   www.urbanwolf.cc   both Canadian companies.  With Urban Wolf you just add meat and a fish oil.  It is basically a BARF or raw diet with the complications taken out.   If you want to be doubly sure like me add Canine Complete to their diet   www.thewholisticpet.com.

Dominic good for you for taking the first step   These are a couple of healthy alternatives to raw.  I do admit that raw is the way to go as you control what your dogs eats.

That's going to be hard to answer.  Bear with me.  I'm extremely tired right now.

Vet's saying "No Scientific Research" goes back to their science only.  And vet's don't study nutrition.  And vet's promote sales of various feeds in their offices.

Raw isn't as complicated as it sounds and variety in the proteins (meats) you use is the key to complete nutrution.  In addition to using different sources (poultry, fish, beef, lamb, pork for some) you can "mix & match" per meal.  Chicken RMB's + Beef MM + lamb OM or even beef and chicken OM. 

The amount you feed will be a percentage of what your dog's ideal weight will be at maturity.  It will vary depending on your dog's activity level and health.  Sedentary dogs get less, working/active dogs get more PERCENTAGE.  The weight at maturity that you base it on is the same regardless of the age of the dog.  The number of times you feed per day will determine how much to feed.  If your dog weighs  80 lbs. (1280 oz.) and is old, sedentary,  or has mobility issues and pretty much lays around most of the time 2% or 25.6 oz. per day should be sufficient.  If your dogs ideal weight is 80 lbs. (1280 oz.) and the dog is very active (working, sport, etc.) 3.5 or 4% or more depending on the dog should be fed.  Divide the number from the percentage by the number of times you will be feeding per day.  (Feeding 25.6 ounces per day, dividing that by two feedings is 12.8 ounces per meal.)

The formula is

50-55% of the diet is Raw Meaty Bones (RMB's) such as chicken backs, chicken necks, turkey necks, wings of either, pork neck bones - more bone than meat.

45% of the diet is Muscle Meat (MM) which is any meat that doesn't contain bones and heart.  (Heart is a muscle.)

5% of the diet is Organ Meat (OM) which is liver, kidney, brains, pancreas, lung etc.

You can choose to feed all RMB's at one meal, and all MM and OM at the other meal.  You can choose to split it up and feed part of each at both meals.

Watch your dog's stool.  Too hard, dry, crumbly you are feeding too much bone.  Too loose, you are feeding too much Muscle meat and/or organ meat.

Monitor weight.  Too little - increase your percentage.  Too heavy - decrease. 

This is what we feed our dogs.

We feed twice a day.  The evening meal is a meaty bone meal.  We feed what we can source so at the moment we are gettig plenty of chicken carcs.  Also we feed beef, lamb, port, rabbit.  In fact anything that is a bone meal but not from the load bearing parts of the animal.

In the morning they have a non bone meal.  Beef/lamb heart, lung, tripe or kidney.  Also oily fish fresh on tinned.  Table scraps are frozen along with mulched up fruit and veg and Sunday breakfast is this concoction of veg, fruit and table scraps with a couple of eggs including shells.

Training treats are sausage, cheese, black pudding and liver.  The liver is poached just to take the rawness off of it before it goes in my pocket (LOL) and the liquor from this is added to the veg mix. so no waste.

Tracking is always done for a meal so when tracking that day's breakfast is used for the track.

Jess

Thanks Larrydee,I know you mean well but yes i do know the owner of Urban wolf and spoke to her many times by phone and i have to tell you that i was not impressed at all with her knowledge.I am not interested in the kind of companies that made it due to sheer luck and taking the chance to try.Yes i do respect that they went after there dream BUT that does'nt make it right.Here ,ill give you an example of what i mean,Try asking ALOT of these raw makers a simple question like ,How many calories are in a one cup measure of your food and see what they tell you,they dont know..Alot of these are people that started making it in there basements with no control measures in place what so ever.Here,another example,calcium and phos levels.They will say that ,oh its in the proper ratio.Yes absolutely and thats because usually a bought bonemeal is BUT now ask them the percentage on a dry matter basis that is in the product and good luck getting an answer.As i have said,alot of these are just people jumping on the band wagon.Please dont be offended or insulted as i am NOT directing this at you.Im just at the point after years of research that im sick and tired of the BS in the dog food industry in general.It makes me out and out angry.These companies make the kind of money that would probably make you sick if you knew the true numbers and yet they cant have a little conscience as to what they are making us feed our pets.YES,we should all make a stink to the proper level of Government in all of our areas about placing some control measures on these companies once and for all.Anyway ,i dont want this topic to ruin my Sunday so im taking my boys to do some ob  training in the backyard.Talk to you later and PLEASE nobody take this personal.