Training thread - Page 1

Since I'm currently working the out for the most part with my dog, I thought I'd ask everyone what methods they use and why? Have you had any problems with certain methods and what did you do to fix it, what did you see that caused the problem in the first place? So really what mistakes have you made and how did you learn from them? I'm asking because someone on another board wants to cry about the method used on my dog but isn't man enough to share his own methods. Funny how that works, damn trolls. I'll share how my dog is worked later. No bashing other methods please, lets keep it a civil thought provoking thread.

you could be specific about whether this is an adult dog with outing problem or 20 weeks puppy....

because outing would be different on each. and then is it being done with grip building. Although I have a question too about the sanctity of grip building. Can you really build grips or is it all fake. Grips are genetic ONLY???

cheers

Vikram,

I believe gripp is genetic also.

But you can improve technique in which the gripp is done to make it better. It is like taking a natural swimmer and making him a legend, and taking a good swimmer and putting him with a great trainer you could make him a champion. The great natural swimmer will become a legend and the other one will win one medal.

Young adult dog, no out problems as we are just getting the out down right now. Def no grip problems. He will out on a tug at home. I'm not asking for advice as what I am doing works great on my dog, I just want to know how others teach the out on a sleeve or suit with decoy pressure,  while dog is in drive.

 From what I hear trainers say and what I have seen myslef, you can improve grips but the dog will revert back to his original grips under pressure or when he's stressed. Thakfully my dog doesn't have any issues I need to work out and I can focus on traning him the routine.

Started all on tugs or balls.   Instant regrip when they outed to begin with.  A couple out almost too well on the tug now which I think may cause some issues on the dumbbells.  

One girl will out on the sleeve if the helper is wearing it but doesn't like to let go if we are doing a victory lap on the field.  The other girl outs no matter what as she wants the helper, not the sleeve.....  Both out off the sleeve fine when we get back to the vehicle, game over.

My male learned to out fine on balls and tug.  However at a too young of age he was worked in aggression.  (newbies trusted the training director at the time, very bad mistake, now in different club)  I don't think his out will ever come back on the sleeve or anything when he gets worked up now.  I'll concentrate on the girls as I'm not willing to see what we would have to do to try and get his out back.  He's my go everywhere else dog and I'm fine with that.

So are you saying you just went from tug to sleeve and when you yelled out they let go? No corrections needed ever? Funny Baden is opposite he will out just fine the jacket, when we are away from the decoy but if the guys still in it...

To begin with there was a few second time lag, once they outed they would get a quick regrip like on the tug.  I've been very lucky with the two I'm working now in this regard.  (which is why I run around the field with a big silly grin on my face when I'm working them)  For us the key is loose line when I want an out with the helper wearing the sleeve, if I'm pulling the line, the girls are gripping harder. 

Give us time, I'm sure I'll have problems one day with it! 

Gee an actual thread about relavent stuff, can't imagine why no one is posting...

Keep your shorts on!

Like said before, I try to start mine early.  I don't worry about baggage like alot of people do.  "Oh I'm gonna ruin this or that"  "He's never gonna bite again"  If you start early and it's properly done you can start a puppy without and adverse reactions.  I too begin with the tug or ball.  Some people use the two toy method where they out and immediately throw the other, but I only use the same one.  The dog after a few repititions know that he will get the grip again if he outs. 

Every dog is different and you need to train all of them different.  With past dogs, I have never had a problem with doing things this way.  It translated to the helper quite well.  I know that some dogs get def and blind to their handler once they are geeked up and the juices are flowing, but for most of my dogs this has worked. 

Many helpers ahve used the two sleeve method.

My little boy that you were inquiring about yesterday came with a warning from our breeder.  He said I was going to have out problems with him.  Right away, I realized why i was warned.  I started the out exercise with him and at first he was reluctant, but after a few times he got it and came back twice as hard and tried to swallow the whole tug.  After a couple more sessions he wasn't even waiting for me to give the re-bite command and was instantaniously re-biting on his own, so you gotta watch it.  You can screw a dog up in so many ways!!!

I was talking about this with someone and they said they wouldn't even be screwing with it at that point.  Everyone has their opinion.  Whether it helps starting them at a young age and if it translates onto the field really depends on the dog.  I think the out has more methods than any other exercise in dog training.  Like everything else, you have to tailor your training to the dog. 

With Jager, outing used to be not fun on the sleeve, he wanted to hold onto it, this was at 10 months old.  I was at a seminar with Bernt Foyer (I think that is his last name) from Germany, and he warned me then, that there is no reason I should not be able to get the sleeve from a 10 month old.  Jager was already showing VERY nice protection work at 10 months old.  So we made it very black and white with him and the pinch collar.  Out means out. 

Jager now spits the sleeve out very nice and very clean.  I also tought the out on the toy with the "out" wait, and hold very tight so there is no moving prey per se, I did an ear pinch a small handful of times when we were first learning, and he got it very quickly.  Outing on the sleeve was challenging at first, I was giving him too many "chances" to get it right, then I went to the seminar, and was told I was going to be in a world of hurt if I didn't get it figured out soon.  So we went to the pinch collar and long line, and out means out!

The out has a lot to do with how clear the dog is as well.  A dog that is sharper will have more problems, as the hold and bite is a safety for them.  I think that is partly why you see some of the very top dogs with clean outs, yes there is training behind it, but also most top level dogs are very clear in the head. 

Nervy or sharp dogs can either not bite or have shallow bites, or they want to hang on for dear life, and growl and take cheap shots.  This is not to say that clear headed dogs won't take cheap shots now and then, they are just more likely NOT to from what I have seen and read. ~Kari