Therapy dog - Page 1

Hi all. I took a phone call today from a woman inquiring about my pups. She is looking for a therapy prospect for her autistic children, 9yr and 3 yr olds. Now I don't know much about therapy dogs but I just got educated real fast from some special needs trainers. I do not know this woman and her children but I felt compelled to try to help her. She was in tears when I said I would give her a pup. But the trainers said no. I learned the dog should be older and of excellent temperment and of special qualities. 

So now that can't give her a pup, I am calling out to all kind hearted GSD owners and breeders and would  have a dog that they are going to retire or just doesn't  fit your breeding program any longer, or your kennels are full, or you just have too many dogs, maybe you would like to help these kids. Maybe you a have a dog that is way to docile for Schutzhund but is of sound mind and strong? If you feel you have a dog that has excellent temperment qualities and would like to possibly help these kids, drop me an e-mail. Like I said, I do not know this woman or her two children.

Thanks for your time. Ed

Ed,

As a service dog trainer, I am VERY VERY against placing a GSD with children with disabilities.  For that matter, there are only a handful of adults that are disabled that I would place a GSD service dog with.

Here is why:

1)  Health issue---how heart rending would it be to get a puppy, raise it, only to find it has hip/health/temperment issues

2)  GSD are a "herding" breed.  They will, regardless, eventually "herd" or "guard" the children.

If you do your research there is only one guide dog school left who uses GSD's as guide dogs.  And, there are very, very few, if any(I know of none) reputable service dog organizations that place GSD's.

As a rule, it is expected that, by the time the dog is 3 yrs of age, it will become "overprotective" of the handler----heck this happens with "able bodied" people.  Think about it for a second:  If the person has any paranoia or insecurities, the dog will pick up on that very, very quickly.  If the person doesn't have good pack leadership skills, the dog will assume the role of pack leader, and end up "defending" the person.

Now, before some say, hogwash, remember, that a service dog/handler partnership is 24/7 relationship.  It is usually even tighter than a "normal" relationship between a household companion and a human.

Again, if you choose not to believe me, that is fine, but call around to CCI, PAWS, NEADS, Brigadoon, Bonnie Bergin's Program--The Assistance Dog Institute, etc....ask them....Ask the guide dog organizations(I will see if I can dig up the letter from the organization in California and Oregon.  They expressed why they are stopping using GSDS)

Here is an email from a trainer at a guide dog school:

(I have known Kali for several years.  She is located in the western
> United States, and she is a great dog trainer)
> > Kali
> >
> > I have some issues using GSD's as assistance dogs, but people do not
> > understand why.
> >
> > As a guide dog trainer, working at a school that trains GSD's for
> > guides, can you give me some information:
> >
> > 1)  Does your school breed their own dog?
>
> We breed our own stock and we also accept donated GSDs, either from
> rescues/shelters or outside breeders or other service dog schools.
> Our number of active breeding GSDs is quite low compared to the labs
> (I would say there's probably a maximum of ten active GSD breeders.)
> Occasionally we also will breed our own bitch to an outside stud--
> from another school, or we've even used some Schutzhund line dogs
> (and got some very nice dogs out of that breeding)
>
> Even we were surprised to learn that the success rate of the donated
> GSDs is EXACTLY THE SAME as our own GSD stock.
>
> It is also my understanding that we are going to be phasing out the
> breeding of GSDs, because we have too much difficulty maintaining
> good breeding stock and their success rate does not even come close
> to that of the labrador.
>
> Doesn't mean the ones that do make it aren't great guides in the
> right hands, of course.
>
> > 2)  What is your criteria for placement of a GSD with a new handler
> > who
> > has no experience?
>
> Generally the rule at this point, since class-ready GSDs are so rare,
> we only give them to clients who have had a GSD before, or are at
> least a retrain (been successful with a guide dog before). I think
> occasionally we may give a shepherd to a capable client if we have
> some "left over." We have a rating system for controllability called
> "control factor." A dog can be any number from 1-5. 1 being so
> ridiculously soft and undistractable that even the most feeble handle
> could control that dog. 5 being too much dog for the program. Most
> labs are 3's. Most shepherds are 4's (with some exceptions.) We rate
> client's capability factor with the same system--it follows that we
> generally match up CF 4 dogs with CF 4 handlers.
>
> > 3)  Do you often see problems with the dogs at the age of 3-4 yrs?  As
> > in overprotectiveness?
>
> I don't have any hard-and-fast data on this, but I have heard of
> shepherds that become protective or aggressive in some way after a
> couple years out, ESPECIALLY if the handler gets lax or even
> encourages the behavior.
>
> > 4)  What is your pass/fail rate?
>
> This is just a guesstimate from the last time someone told me the
> data... GSDs have probably no more than a 30% success rate, at best,
> in training. Goldens are similar to GSDs. Labs and lab/golden crosses
> are anywhere from 50-70% successful in training.
>
> > 5)  What percentage of GSD's do you place over say, goldens and labs?
>
> Probably no more than 15% at this point. Maybe even lower now that we
> have such a small breeding program for them.
>
> > 6)  What percentage of GSD's are still working after 3-4 yrs vs
> > percentage of Labs/Goldens?
>
> I don't have the data on this one.
>
> > 7)  Is your school leaning more toward labs/goldens as the years
> > progress?
>
> We've been leaning towards labs mostly, for the past twenty years. At
> this point our breeding colony is about 80% labs. We keep Goldens
> aroun

Letter from Trainer at Guide dog school cont'd:

7)  Is your school leaning more toward labs/goldens as the years
> > progress?
>
> We've been leaning towards labs mostly, for the past twenty years. At
> this point our breeding colony is about 80% labs. We keep Goldens
> around, too, but quite often end up just breeding them for lab/golden
> crosses.
>
> >
> > People don't seem to understand that for disabilies other than
> > blindness or hearing impaired, prick earred dogs just don't cut
> > it.  Or
> > rather I have to go through 30 GSD's to find one good one, vs, 10 Labs
> > to find one good one.
>
> This is often true--more labs make it than just about any other
> breed. German Shepherds can make excellent guide dogs especially for
> a certain type of client, which is why we have tried to continue to
> produce them. It just eventually reaches a point where it's almost
> not worth it anymore, I suppose. Though I would say we lose more GSDs
> to HEALTH (elbows, hips), followed by temperament/controllability.
>
> >
> > And they also don't understand that often times, guide dog schools
> > have
> > a "breed within a breed"
>
> We do. The GSDs we breed are really more like labs in shepherd suits
> at times. Which is not to say that we don't occasionally get a dog
> with high prey drive, or soundness issues.
>
> --Kali

Email from the "boss" of Pudget Sound Assistance Dog Club, and the former director of Prison Pet Partnership(inmates training service dogs for people with disabilities)

German Shepherd Dog.

Interestingly GSD's are my least favorite SD candidates. Which is a
comment on GSD's today. Most are physically and emotional unsound.
Finding a good one is very difficult and when you think you have the
right dog it matures and becomes overly reactive and protective. Two
very bad characteristics for a SD.

In the past they were the dog of choice for guide work. Now guide
schools seldom use them.

Jeanne 

As I have been asked about if Guide Dogs for the Blind (GDB) is still using German Shepherds, and why we don't have chocolate labs, many times, and just recently recieved responses, I thought I'd post first of all, why we don't use Chocolate Labs as guide dogs:

Quote:

After being part of our history for sixty-five years, we are regretfully nearing the end of the German Shepherd breed in our program. This foundation breed, first matched with veterans returning from World War II, has served our graduates well for many decades, but times have changed. The number of guide dog users that match well with a German Shepherd have diminished and our world has become faster, more congested, and distracting creating additional challenges for this generally alert, active breed. Certainly, there are some German Shepherds who fill the bill admirably and are wonderful working guides. The issue we face is the majority of this breed does not fulfill the work they were bred for and the very issues which make them incompatible with the program make them difficult dogs to manage overall. We are not alone on this issue. The decline of the German Shepherd breed for guide dog work has been recognized by other leading guide dog schools around the world. A poll of 70 international guide dog schools found that although 36 use the breed in their respective training programs, not a single one cited the German Shepherd Dog as the best suited for guide dog work in today’s busy environment. Our breeding specialists, veterinarians, and instructors have been tracking this emerging trend for several years and have worked to reverse it through breeding exchanges within guide dog programs, outside purchases of breeders and puppies, donated dogs, and rescue organizations. Through all these efforts the success rate continues well below the colony average. The large percentage that does not qualify for the program gives us strong reason for concern. These are dogs that are active, vocal and often have a hard time adjusting to a kennel environment. Staff resources must be focused on managing a small number of dogs to provide a quality of life that meets our high standards of care. General traits of the breed including high energy, tendencies toward protectiveness, and prey drive contribute to their complexities of success as a Guide Dog or as a pet. Guide Dogs for the Blind devotes tremendous effort into finding suitable adoptive homes for these dogs that will offer quality of life to both the dog and the by TheDogTrainer on 13 August 2008 - 03:08 Cont'd... Guide Dogs for the Blind devotes tremendous effort into finding suitable adoptive homes for these dogs that will offer quality of life to both the dog and the adopter. We have reviewed these combined factors from an ethical and humane standpoint and are adhering to our decision to only add breeding stock to our colony that meets our criteria. Thus, the anticipated decline of the German Shepherd breeding colony, as first reported last spring, has now materialized. Guide Dogs for the Blind will continue to provide follow-up and veterinary support to existing German Shepherd Guide Dogs, but after all current pups and dogs in training complete their final status, which we anticipate will occur over the next 18 months, we will no longer have this breed available to our applicants. We remain committed to providing guide dogs that meet the standards of our program and the requirements of our diverse constituency, while maximizing the success rate of GDB dogs. At the same time, we acknowledge and have enormous regard for the thousands of German Shepherd Guide Dogs who have served our students. Much credit for their success must go to the hundreds of talented puppy socializers, raisers, trainers, and graduates who worked patiently with this complex breed. Their efforts demonstrate the earnest passion and tireless dedication to making the German Shepherd Dog an important chapter in the story of Guide Dogs for the Blind. We will always remember and pay our respects to this wonderful breed and honor the place of the German Shepherd Guide Dog in the history of Guide Dogs for the Blind. by AKGeorgias mom on 13 August 2008 - 04:08 What kind of work do they need the dog to do?  My one experience with an autism dog was that the dog was specially trained to track the child if he wandered off.  I have worked with kids with disabilities in a variety of capacities for over 10 years and there is a huge range of what service dogs can be trained to do, and most organizations have a lengthy process to try to match the right dog with the right handler.  Also therapy dogs are different from service dogs. That said, I am training my 3 yo working line female GSD to be a therapy dog (I work as a therapist with young children with emotional problems).  My girl just has a personality that loves to be around kids and is able to read them well and react (or not react) appropriately.  She seems to know which kids need some extra petting time, but it's not something I trained her to do.  Our training has been primarily basic obedience since she was returned by her original owner to her breeder because she was unruly, but that owner hadn't done ANY training with her.  We've been working with one of the local Schutzund clubs in training because they've been able to help me understand how to motivate her, build her focus and bring out her drive. Opal by TheDogTrainer on 13 August 2008 - 08:08 Opal,   Therapy dogs and service dogs are extremely different!  Therapy dogs DO NOT have public access rights, where service dogs do. That being said, I am in the process of training my5th service dog for an Autistic Child this year. The skills that are being trained are: Basic S&R.  The dog will "find" the child within a limited area.  I do not like using a dog as a "baby sitter" and I think that often times the parents use that too much.   If you need that, put an "ankle bracelet" on the child(similar to what is used for people under "house arrest", or the ones that you use on hunting dogs to "track them") Behavioral interruption.  Most kids with autism do repetive behavior, often times self harm.  Dogs can be trained to interrupt that behavior. Blocking of doors to prevent "escaping".  All of my dogs are trained to block the door, and bark, should the child attempt to bolt.  ***Interesting note:  The most recent placement, Rudy and his girl Allison....They were out shopping, Mom put child in a sit/stay in a chair.  All of a sudden, Rudy started barking----a serious no-no in public. Ali was sitting in the chair, when Mom looked. Son, who is 13 was with, and didn't at the time pick on why the dog did that.  About an hour later, there were at Office Depot, Mom at the counter ordering business cards, when Rudy started barking again.  This time, son, Alex, realized what was going on....Ali was attempting to "bolt" and Rudy was "alerting" to that!**** Blocking street wandering----IE, dog is trained to do a sit/stay at all streets, until the child says "Lets make sure it's safe and "LOOK BOTH WAYS" before we cross the street.  "LOOK BOTH WAYS" is the release command, that allows the dog to get up and go at a curb. These are just a few of the commands that a dog is trained to do. In a therapy setting, which I have trained dogs for(I have a diver friend who is a Psychiatrist who uses her Eskis in the office.)...I teach the dog a basic retrieve(Take an appointment card to the person, water bottle, and box of kleenexs to the person, if they are crying).  Open doors(some clients do not like you, IE, therapist in front of them, due to trauma issues, so dog opening doors is a way to open the door for the client.  Same with closing the door.   Behavior interruption----you as the therapist will have to cue this---so, if you have a client who self mutilates in the office, you can send the dog to force the client into tactile stimulation(Petting the dog).  And general Tactile Stimulation, IE, petting and being hugged.   As the handler/trainer of said therapy dog, it is your responsibility to watch your dog for calming behaviors.  Lip Licking, yawning, stress shedding, eye adverting, etc.....When I was doing rescue work for Katrina, my Rottie, JoNell went with us.  It was my responsibility to make sure that her needs were met, and that included her psychological needs. Some clients will "pet" too hard, or give off hard eye contact, without realizing it.... And, some clients may be intimidated by the dog.  I recommended to Perri to keep a crate in her office----when the dogs go their crate, they are off limits to everyone but her. My Rottie girl, Largo, is awesome with kids.  Not sure why that is, as I do not have children.  But she is.  I have taken her to a childrens nursing home, locally(Kids with brain trauma, or born addicted with brain damage).  It is way too hard for me, which ends up being way too hard on her, so we don't do that often. As a side note:  I only use labs or goldens, and I only get dogs that have c by TheDogTrainer on 13 August 2008 - 08:08 Ones that have come from reputable breeders who show both obedience and conformation(or field trial).  And who OFA, CERF, Thyroid and Cardiac test their dogs. The reason for this is, that when placing a dog with children, you need to know the dogs background----remember a service dog is going to be going to school with the child, and be around other kids. I like conformation rejects(IE, bite is off, size is a bit small or large, etc...not cutting it in the show ring.)   1 2 3 Next » ← Back to Main Search forums   Contact information  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement  Copyright Information  Terms of Service  Cookie policy  ↑ Back to top  Tools Signup Login Latest posts ONLY ADMINS CAN ENTER DOGS NOW MEMBERS DID NOT FOLLOW RULES IABCA - International All Breed Association is not a legit site for working dog titles Opinions on pedigree TUTORIAL PDB RULES, WARNINGS, REASONS, ANSWERS Need help in evaluating hip x-rays Latest classifieds 7 Month Old Czech/DDR Sable Male 7 Month Old Sable Czech/DDR Male Czech/DDR Sable 7 Month Old Sable long coat female World class Males after VA2 Zet vom Napte-Emmer-Ec Extras Dog Names