Handler Agression - Page 1

Why would a breeder promote and breed dogs who are or can be handler aggressive?

I personally won't touch an animal for breednig if it shows any type of handler aggression, I don't care who the dog is, who it is owned by and what titles or high scores it has.  I just won't put up with it.  I have no problem with a strong confident dog, but under no circumstances would I ever allow a dog to think it could come back at me aggressively. 

Jennifer

I agree. When I read some of those clasified I can't quite figure why would any one dog with handler agression.

I agree it shouldn't be a selling point, nor should an experienced handler tolerate it...but personally I love a dog with the backbone to challenge authority. There's genetically nothing wrong with a dog that's harder than his handler. As a breeder, if you know that kind of hardness is in your line, you have to be ethical about evaluating each puppy carefully and selling the dog to the right person. There are a lot of nice dogs out there that have been hardasses with their handler at some point.

Hey Jen :)

I suppose you also saw that adv here where the breeder mention on the adv that both dogs (sire and dam) are handler aggressive?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/classifieds/62907.html

Nice way to improve the breed huh? According to the breeders discription neither dogs should have no busniess being bred.

It's sad to see that these dogs are SchH3 titled. The dam is FH1. What a sad day in the schutzhund community.

yeah, I saw the ad, the reason for me posting the question.

I also don't understand the severe animal aggression issue's some lines have, these dogs were originally shepherds right?  what good are they if they kill what they are supposed to be herding or protecting.

Thtas the add that I saw as well. And discount avaliable to working homes, so pet homes still can go ahead and get that dog, pay extra and than send it to shelter because they can't handle it. Very smart breeding. I love hard dogs and I can handle tham with out any problems, been around dogs like that whole my life. But I will never want one in my house with my family. So whats the point of breeding dog like that? In my opinion is just stupid.

I'm not condoning handler aggression - but as with all things there are lines between desirable and not.  Backbone is good and backbone will lead to a dog with it to occasionally say "hey, that was unfair based on the rules you taught me and I'm going to let you know about it."  Is this agression, or a dog with backbone?  Could be either depending on the situation. 

Onto the other point about these dogs being "shepherds" which aren't supposed to kill - what do you think "prey" drive really is?  It is the drive to seek, hunt and kill and we all breed for it.  I’ve personally spoken to people into herding with border collies and mals and evidently when new, even the really good ones occasionally kill one of their charges.  I'm not into herding, but understand that the same drive that slightly exceeded can lead to such a kill is based on the drives that up to a point make a dog an excellent or just -so-so herder.  I’d like to hear more feedback on this - but it makes sense.  Herding is not a gentle process it is demanding and requires frequent squaring off with dominant rams and obstinate sheep.  Dog must be hard and business oriented - it is not a game - at least not the real life version.

-Calvin

I have to laugh !!

When I read the title of the post, the first thing that came to my mind,   was   :    Yeah, I know some handlers that are aggressive !! 

And Usually only aggressive handlers like to handle " handler aggressive "  dogs. 

That being said,   I think it is a neccesity to keep certain dogs that posses, a certain desirable stable confident aggression, for genetic diversity.   

Many years ago, Police and Sheriff K9 units used to come to the Schutzhund Clud to work with the helper. They came because they had "severe problems" and the trainer had the reputation among police for identification and solutions.

The worst one was a Malinois import from Belgium. Like the Germans, sometimes they are exporting their "problems"

After many sessions, both at the club and privately, it was determined that the dog would just as soon take out his partner as the perpetrator and that other officers would be in danger as well.  He just was hyper aggressive and could not bond to anyone. The trainer advised returning the dog and replacing it with one fit for duty.

Very, very sad situation. Genetics? Abuse? Clearly, they knew how the dog was before selling it to the police department.

That was the only one who's "issues" could not be resolved.

I have a one word comment to anyone who does not believe that it can happen in the Shepherd world....... Boban.

Michele and Pharaoh

With very stong, self-confident dogs that have the ability to focus intensely and the courage to overcome adversity to get what they want, in other words, ideal prospects for working, one has to establish very early on, and keep establishing throughout the training that you the handler are the pack leader.  One has to maintain this relationship in fair ways, but it must be maintained.  If one such a type of dog falls into the hands of an overly macho type that thinks browbeating the dog will gain respect, or, on the other hand, if a beginner that does not have expert guidance in a good working club tries to deal with such a dog on their own, you could end up with handler aggression in a dog that, had it been handled in a fair, consistent, firm and knowledgeable manner might have been a top competitor and excellent partner in all respects.  It comes down to the handler in these cases.  That is why ethical breeders of working dogs ruthlessly screen their puppy buyers, and well they should.