Tracking - Page 1

Hey guys,

I wanted to know what you thought about forced tracking? is it dangerous for the dog? How does it affect the drive for phases B and C??

Thanks for your input!

I just assume find a dog that is eager to do the work.  If he wasn't cut out for protection, I wouldn't force that either.  I could see having a phenomenal dog in all aspects, but his retrieve sucked and you had to do a forced retrieve, but in my opinion, I would rather do everything motivationally with corrections at the appropriate time.

Think of the kid that gets forced to play a sport he dislikes because the father/mother is trying to live out their unfulfilled childhood. 

I know some people believe that doing forced retrieves, obedience, tracking, etc. is better.  That is fine.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  My only thought is that if I am doing a "sport", why not do it in fun.  Now, if I was training the dog for the street, it may be a different situation.  Everything is different in the real world.  In sport, if you fail tracking, obedience or protection, you look like an ass.  On the street, someone may lose a life.

While I will correct a dog that is an experienced tracker and just goofing off, I do not force track to teach it, absolutely not. If you force track at all, it should be as a last resort and you better know what you're doing.  It doesn't matter what phase you're in, if you get unnecessarily hard too soon, even a very good dog will shut down, then you're screwed.

I agree completely with Don. There is a time and place, and everyone has a right to use a method they are comfortable with.

There are some people who force track and are good at it. But I myself agree with the posters above. I really only correct a more experienced dog on the track.and try to be more motivational. Wen applying compulsion you need to do it exactly right so it would probably be beest to seek out someone more experienced with this method.

It all depends on the dog too, you can really make tracking a disaster by using force.  Also what some of the very best teachers of tracking in this area define as forced really is just showing discipline to the track.  Dave Dellesugus is great at teaching tracking and using the right amount of "force" theoretically anything that is not natural to the dog is considered force when you take away the cookie training.  Some dogs just need a snap of the line and this could be considered as force.  Feeding a dog solely on the track is considered force.  So you can only imagine this is left up to interpretation.

It has a lot to do with the discipline of not only the dog, but YOU as well and your commitment to teaching the dog proper Schutzhund tracking.  Why is this something that you are considering, have you "taught" the dog to track already, a great tracking dog is great due to continuous and consistent tracking.  I am a terrible tracking person, I have way too much on my plate most of the time and Sasha and I suffered ALOT due to my lack of commitment to her to get her out as often as we need to be.

In her SchH1, I was told she is an excellent dog and should always be a "V" tracking dog.  I never put in the time that really is needed to have great tracking, and I think our highest track was an 88, we failed more times then we passed, we did get our SchH3, but I wanted more than that, not her fault, it was mine for not taking her out enough.

If you are wanting to compete with your dog, the big guys track at a minimum of 4 days a week if not more than that.  If you are tracking consistently and fairly, you should not need force unless your dog has zero desire for the track.

I think before you force track a dog you have to ask yourself, have I exhausted all possible avenues of being fair to my dog and actually teaching proper tracking behaviors?  Have I been fair to my dog by taking him out enough times to understand what I am asking of him?  If you can not answer these in full honesty I think force should be out of the question. ~Kari

Thanks for all your opinions.

The reason I ask is becaus ei have a 28 month old who knows how to track, but on any given day he decides he doesn't want to. He will turn around try and play start eating the grass. Etc... He is a very hard strong dog.

My coach has done force tracking with all his dogs he competed with and has always scored around 96. I have seen his work done on a 7 year old showline female, and she did great in he schh1 with 96.

Thanks for all your input,.

If force is required someone is not doing something right.

There's better way's.

JMO.

Jen

Your dog is in avoidance. 

why would my dog be in avoidance if on the track there was never any pressure? It was all fun and games, what was there to avoid?

Jen

Nobody on here knows the full story except you and your dog.  Your dog is 28 months old, which is old enough to stop the play crap when there is a track in front of him.  I can see a young puppy that is just being introduced to tracking doing this, but a dog of this age should be more focused on the task at hand.  Are you rewarding the dog with toys during the tracks?  Secondly, any dog that is eating grass instead of tasty treats on a track indicates there is something going on. 

How is the dogs food drive?  The dog doesn't seem too motivated to track, but I only know what was told.    Does this dog have a full bowl of food at home, where he can graze at his leisure?  Does he devour the food in half a minute after it is given to him? 

Like I said, I only know what you have written.  The dog sounds like there is some avoidance.  If he has very little or low food drive, I would feed him on the track.    Take away his regular meals and disperse them into the track.  How far are you into tracking?  Are you on articles?  Nothing better than some tasty fish as a reward for an article.  Maybe even a chickensicleat the end of the track.

There are too many questions that need to be asked before you take anyone's advise.  Hell, for all I know, you might need to go back to square 1 and feed the dog his meals in scent pads alone.