Any AKC Breed Champions with SchH Titles? - Page 9

The GSDCA RCC is not just Sch titles, its titles earned by regional club members and events your club host, etc. Our club has one member solely devoted to keeping track of and submitting our points. You can download the requirments at the GSDCA website. Its actually quite fun and as a member of a 2nd place winning club 2 years running, its a lot of hard work to. I would also like to say Sunshine your definetly a breath of fresh air.

1st of all let me state that im partial to german working lines but also believe to each their own. i was wondering what everyone thought of this question. if an AKC champion reached Sch3 and is successful (ill define success as several times sch3 w/ score of 260+). is it successful because it is an AKC champion? or is it successful dispite being an AKC champion? just wondering

I'd say despite being an AKC champion. Especially if its a Am-bred AKC showline. I have seen some GSD's pleasing to the eye at some AKC breed shows, but the ones that catch my eye look like they may have some recent German blood in there. JMO. For the record I am partial to the German lines both working and show.

"if an AKC champion reached Sch3 and is successful (ill define success as several times sch3 w/ score of 260+). is it successful because it is an AKC champion? or is it successful dispite being an AKC champion? just wondering" I would say being an AKC Champion or having any title unrelated to the 3 phases in Schutzhund would make any other title irrelevant. They have no bearing on the tasks in Schutzhund. Regardless of who the dog is, how the dog is bred or even what breed the dog is, the individual dog would of had to perform multiple times in front of several different judges in order to achieve "several times SchH3 w/ score of 260+". A dog like this, really any dog that completes all 3 phases in flying colors and has a score 260+, deserves recognition even if it is a SchH3 titled American bred AKC conformation Champion of AKC show lines. Along with this line of thinking, would a high V rated or VA rated dog with a SchH3 title make an AKC conformation Champion because of the V or VA rating, or in spite of it? How about the Vice Versa, would a highly regarded AKC conformation Champion with a SchH3 title make a high V or VA at a Sieger Show held in the USA, because of the AKC conformation Champion title or in spite of it?

im not sure your scenario is along the same thinking. IMO a AKC champion American shepard is an AKC champion because of who its parents are. And most likely will produce AKC champions (or has a greater likely hood than on that is not). On the same token my GSD works the way he does because of who his parents are. Lets say i breed my dog and he produces a dog that gets an AKC champion. Id say that dog is an AKC champion dispite the fact every dog in his pedigree is from working lines. it would be a FREAK. And chances are it will never consitantly produce AKC champions. Just like and AKC champion that is successful in schutzhund will never produce a litter where 70% of the litter is successful at schutzhund, and 70% of the litters offspring work as well. I think the german working dogs and the American shepard might as well be different breeds.

wscott00, your thinking would not hold true in either scenario. I think that you neglect to address the importance of WHO the pups are sold to. If your dog came from and produces the strengths that take him to championship, then putting the pups in the "right" ownership will continue the pattern. It doesn't matter what percentage of produce would be successful at schutzhund if none of them ever train or compete. I don't think we can access a percentage of success if so few progeny are ever seen at any phase of competition whether it be AKC or SchH.

Kathy P - I agree that placing a pup in the right home makes all the difference. there must be hundreds of pups that had all the potential in the world that was left in the liter box because someone new to schtuzhund picked it insteead of T. Floyd or Debbie Zappia. I was speaking to AKC Champion shepards being competitive in schutzhund and German working lines being competitive in the AKC showring. the point im trying to get across is, that no matter how beautifull i think my Kurkey Vom Nethperland is he will never be an AKC champion because he does not fit the standard. if for some reason he was bred to german working bitch and they produced a dog that did fit the AKC standard to a "T". that dog would be a freak occurance. And no matter how many times we bred that puppy to german working line bitches chances are it would never consistantly produce dogs that fit the AKC standard. because the past 20 gernerations did not fit the AKC standard. And basically, it is what it is dispite no dog in its entire background fitting the AKC standard. lastly percentage wise very few dogs are shown or compete on the big stage, but you can assess who produces what. Im not sure how familar or involved in schutzhund but historically there are great producers such as Fero, Mink, Sagus etc.. they produce so well in fact that many peopl can watch 3 dogs work and pick out which ones from Mink, or specifically want a dog from troll, because they have seen dozens of troll progeny that show the same skill sets. ive seen several dog from my dogs father and they all bring real aggression in the bite work and will protest a correction to some degree. but none look like a german show dogs. therefore i assume that my dogs father does not produce german show dogs, AKC shepards, but working dogs. Im sure if you ask those heavily involved in AKC or german show they cn tell you what dogs produce what. just my 2 cents

I'd like to add a name to this list... Am.CH. Trommels Ivan of Berlindale SchH2. Ivan was sired by Am. CH. Dirk vd Trommel, a son of DDR SGR. Bodo v Grafental and Am. CH. Trommels Jasmin of Ryandale. Ivans dam was Trommels Penelope who went back to some very good old American lines.

Some of you folks are seriously disturbed. And what's with the CAPS LOCK messages?

I dunno, but if someone has an empty chair for dinner, I'm game. Poodles or not. :o)