Any AKC Breed Champions with SchH Titles? - Page 8

Thanks Sunny, Above gives by far best insight yet. Sure, nice angulation, good withers, size and head. But,it's surely in erect front assembly: what Lanting describes as 'stallion, stand-up alert look', where it departs from the norm. And, this obsession with Troll I completely fail to understand as well. His sire, the great Axel, seems to me a far better representative of the Breed. Have a look, and see how strikingly Axel's neck/head posture varies from that of Lance. No, actually I'm wrong, Sunny. Reason that nobody, including Lanting, thought erect head carriage was noteworthy then, is because obviously it was already represented by peers and forerunners, including Jewel of Judex, Frigga of Silver Lane and Fortune of Arbywood. It had already been accepted as the norm: Lance merely helped to entrench it far and wide. Anyway Sunny, I know lot more than I did before - easy that, when you start from total ignorance! Cheers

Partishap, Really it wasn't his head neck and front that made people breed to him. We often talk about males here as stallion=like and Americans want to see their dog holding their heads up. You also never see a dog standing out at the end of the lead leaning forward as so many German dogs are photographed. In the picture you are looking at , Lance is up and alert (the photographer probably just tossed a toy up in the air for him) That is how dogs are photographed here. Look closely at his second thigh and how far his leg is pulled back while still having that hock perpendicular to the ground. Actually in that picture Jimmy could have pulled it back even further. Now go look at Canto. REally the shoulder assembly and head and neck were not that different. Canto is just standing there, his ears aren't even that up and alert. But look at the rear assembly. Canto appears straight as a stick in the rear compared to Lance. Or better yet go look at the dog that they crossed with Lance, Bernd Vom Kallengarten Bernd was imported to the USA as a young dog from Germany, by Earnie Loeb. Taking Bernd daughters and granddaughters to Lance was the cross. Covy Tucker Hill, Cobert, Shiloh Gardens, LAngenau all got there starts with this cross. Bernd threw great front assemblies and Lance put on lots of rear. Sidegait and soundness in movement were tremendous during that period (70's)If some rear was good, more was even better so they kept breeding for more rear, more slope on the top and started to lose fronts. In the meantime, it seemed that the Germans were going away from sidegait and more to power, and the big roach. SO it is my feeling that both countries moved away from the stnadard but in different directions. Susan

Hi Firethorn, Thanks for the above: points well made. I'm not sure if Lance's and other AM dogs' 'rising' neckline is that much like Canto's (of course renowned for superb forehand). I happened to glance at some black and whites and in these shots Quanto seems to make for better comparison. By the way, having them side by side, I just noted how much better Canto is in lenght of forelegs! As I said before: Standard is bit like bible - it gets twisted and imterpreted whichever way! You certainly seem to know the AM scene. Cheers.

This was a very informative post. I have shown my new German import in a few AKC shows. The shows are a great training oportunity to get him accustomed to the show setting. I handle him myself and only do local shows that are a hour or two drive. I figure for the entry fee, it's a cheap training opportunity. Most spectators are very impressed with him, think he is more like the GSD they know and love. He even got reserve winners in one show. I showed him today and oddly enough the only other GSD entered was also German lines and the judge refused to give out winners dog or reserve winners but he was not able to clearly state why my dog was not up to the standard, just that he wasn't. I have seen Dr. Goldfarb at both AKC and WDA shows and I really appreciate his judging style and knowledge of the GSD. I have also seen his dog and he is very nice. FYI - GSDs are the 4th most popular dog registered with the AKC - over 40,000! I'll bet more and more of them are German style - it's time the AKC sees the writing on the wall and those of us with German dogs need to show our dogs in the AKC ring.

GSD4dogs, Who Was the judge that withheld the ribbons? A couple weekends ago a German dog won in the PNW. Two German cross females finished last summer in four shows, one winning all big specialties. I really think if more sound animals were shown in the AKC ring you'd see more German bred dogs winning. But you can't take one that is ungroomed, untrained, east west in front or cowhocked in the rear, or so roached they look deformed. Judges can only look at one deformaty at a time :) they'll go with the deformatiy that is more accesptable (the floppy rear). but bring some good ones and you'll see things change. Susan

Susan, I TOTALLY agree with you!! Though;.....I only have West German Bloodline GSDS,..I have shown under highly respected SV Judges and Dr. Goldfard. The standard is just that: THE STANDARD It's meant as a guide-line for breeders. We should all try as hard to follow it as possible. American Bred and German Bred. Too much extreme: front,..top,..or rear is not good. Sometimes it takes a "G" rating or a last place position to have owners really see what they have brought to the ring for the judge to critique.

As for me applause and in Memory of Merkel's Opium, SchH1, CD Applause to her breeder, owner, trainer and handler. Really a true achievement worthy of attention, despite so many years passing! Let's get our dogs out there! Try and get a copy of the Regional Challenge from the GSDCA. I believe it is the first signs of change. Sunny

Lets not forget about V, CH Asslan vom Klammle SchH3 Kkl 1 or V, US CH Aßlan vom Klämmle AKC # WC951652 SV# SZ/1255561

Also lets not forget about the V, CH Neumann's Jim SCHH3 FH3 Kkl1 DDR/1841869 AKC# DL40025301

Fun topic and spin-offs! Random thoughts based on this discussion (but I haven't read half the posts!): I think actually the GSDCA has been showing some strides. Since I "came back" in 2001 (away from dogs for some 15 years), just their publication indicates more interest in herding, and obedience. Now we have Marjorie's health database actually PROMULGATED by the GSDCA in the Review; and talk about pushing Schutzhund. Also pleasing to see several ads in the Review for German-type dogs - including, yes, Jim. This isn't to say they've eradicated the ridiculous skinny too-long "American" style. But some, including the recent president, indicated alot of interest in more performance. BTW, as indicated by the post mentioning Dallas (Sight for Sore Eyes), "all breed" and "specialty" Shepherds are essentially different. Not really in breeding, but in individual build, etc. I'm not shocked the all-breed is BETTER - it's good to have OUTSIDE views to temper the nonsense from cliquish people who obsess on what THEY think is great. (This may run contrary to what the mighty SV types believe, but looking at German "show" dogs, I totally believe it's proven we need to get away from the myopic view of breed obsessors who often form a group of popular people who end up screwing the breed to their whims.) My own "half" GS from the '80s was grandsired by 1 of the top ALL-BREED dogs in America at the time; great dog (and so was my Shana). By that statement, you can tell I'm all for "half"-breds, for lack of better term. And I also think we should be looking at those denigrated "backyard" dogs who often are hardier and truer to proper breed type than those on ANY show circuits. ************************************************ MOST IMPORTANT point I want to make: JOIN THE GSDCA. Forget simply going to AKC shows; JOIN. The more Euro types that get in, the more likely voting will go your way. Instead of treating the dogs like different breeds you never want to be involved with, try to change not just the dogs but the club. We need more balance in the GSDCA; instead of abandoning those of us who want more "Euro" influence in the only official national breed club in the US, join and help get it back to what it once was! Help oust the cliquish fools who care only about what's "pretty" (even if their definitions are way off)!