The Beauceron from Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show 08 - Page 3

I remember that dog from watching Westminster last February and I thought the dog was nervy. It was a bit more obvious on the large flat screen. I agree with what Blitzen and TessJ10 said. And not to beat a dead horse but had the Am. GSD done the same thing I think we would have gotten a different point of view from some...they too are bred to be aloof and herd sheep. Not their element either. In fact a couple years ago I do believe they had a spook in there, the dog also couldn't make the cormers w/o skidding out. That was sad .....

I love it.  I've gone to it and I've watched it almost every year.  Although I was very disappointed when it went to a Champions-only format.  To win points at WKC, or finish a dog, or even win or ribbon in a class - what a thrill for a breeder.  Lots of fun.  Now it's just 1 winner and your BOS (Best of Opposite Sex).  I liked it better when more people could get the thrill of being a Westminster winner.

I have owned a Beauceron for 8 years and been around them for around 9.  For the most part they are not stranger friendly type dogs to begin with.  Very loyal to the owner and family.  Even at a the French equivalent of a show (Journee) this behavior was seen in various degrees.  The Temperment test does not involve alot of stranger or crowd activities if I remember correctly.  My fear is what will happen to this breed as time goes on.

Chris Orkies / chris.orkies@gmail.com / vom GrimOrkie / http://www.orkies.com

http://www.beauce.org/Standard.htm

What will happen to them?  Yes, that is a worry.  AKC recognition has been the near death-knell for some breeds.  A breed that the insurance companies haven't heard of, yet, that looks "sorta" like a rottie or dobie, or other breed on the insurance ban list might be a real attraction for some. 

 I have a question for 4pack

From reading your post you seem to be very drastic about temperament and working ability.  i would like to know why you are excusing this dog for this behavior by saying that beauceron are aloof and doesn't like stangers but would never excuse a GSD for doing the same thing??

The GSD standard say:

The breed has a distinct personality marked by a direct and fearless, but not hostile, expression, and 
self-confidence and a certain aloofness, which does not lend itself to immediate and indiscriminate 
friendships. The Shepherd Dog is not one that fawns upon every new acquaintance.   So If I hear you correctly..this would be ok for a GSD too since it's written in ou Standard?? 

july, you have a hell of a knack for putting words in people's mouths!

I first met Arco at Mexico City, Mexico for the Worlds.

Arco has great movement, and is a nice looking dog........

Beaucerons can be very quirky, if they are not raised and handled correctly.   And, believe it or not, they can be over-socialized and they become just as bad as if they were undersocialized. 

I have owned 4 Beaucerons in the past.  The best one was Aladdin, who is now a member of a "Birds and Animals Unlimited" and is pursuing a career in acting.  He is a great dog, however, he can be small dog aggressive.  He would have made a great service dog but for that issue.  He was not show quality(Easty-westy and cow-hocked, probably due to poor diet by his owner, as the rest of the dogs in his litter were not like that).  I have had, in my home for a year, 2 half sisters of his, one of which is now an AKC CHampion, and will be placed as an assistance dog, after she has a litter.  The other dog, Capre, was not socialized properly as a puppy(OCD and shoulder surgery, and an owner who didn't have it looked at when she first started limping, so she was crated for probably 6-7 months of her life)  She will never amount to anything, and should be spayed and placed somewhere on a farm where she can live out her life in peace.  I also had a rescue, Brojan, who is currently working as an assistance dog.  He is great, but he would not do well with a weak handler.  He can be pushy and assertive in the wrong hands.

Some breeders can be "hoarders" and have way too many dogs to properly work with/socialize them.  However, some of these dogs can be "FORCED" to stand and thus, make it to their championship.

While his movement is awesome, I would likely not breed to Arco, nor would I want a puppy out of him.

Overall, I like the breed---they mature out nicely, if properly raised.  They do not leave "footprints on your ceiling" like a Mal or some other drivey breeds.  They have a nice long life span, with relatively few health problems. 

I know of one breeder in Missouri(Kansas City area) who, up until recently, had 5 generations on her place, with Jury being close to 14 when he died....with no health problems, just dropped over dead while we were away at a dog show.

He was a delightful old dog, with a kind heart, but a courageous heart.

Turbo, the French National Champion, was brought in for Eukanuba(he was the sire to Celeste and Carpe).  He is a very nice dog, but extremely hard.  If you are not his owner, do not even think that you are going to do anything with him that he doesn't want done---that said, if Alain is there, you can do anything to the dog you want.....but, if Alain isn't there....well, prepare to get bitten if he(Turbo) that you are trying to do anything that would make you "alpha" over him.

 Let's put words in My mouth..

I show dogs and don't accept that kind of behavior from a GSD, a Dob, a rottie or wathever guard dog I show. If they can't handle that simple examination then we still need to train harder..

This dog wasn't doing his firs show..He was at the Westminster which mean he has done a LOOOOTTTT of shows before this one.  This behavior has no place in the ring when the dog has experience.

I can accept a little shyness from a puppy..but a adult NO! And I do agree with the judge..I probably woulndn't DQ the dog or excuse it..but I would never make him my winner..

And I do breed ASS as everybody knows!! LOL

July it is going to seem like I am picking on you (I am a little) but don't take this personally I am talking to alot of others out there as well). I am frustrated by this mindset and Ignorance (defer to the definition of ignorance before getting mad) BUT.......

You just had someone very experineced with the breed attempt to explain their temperment to you. Every breed of dog is different and I find I am by no means an expert on Beauceron's but do have a little experience with them in French Ring. I find GSD people tend to look at other breeds and try to compare them and expect all dogs to be like GSD's. You can't do that.

There is a very fine line between suspicion, aggression, and nerve. Very fine line. Dog's like this are often ruined in the wrong hands. Dominant dogs can be pushed to far as well. This dog's tail pinned to it's stomach is not a good sign but there is no way of knowing what this dog is in a 15 second video clip.

I will give two examples I have had experience with. First one is my old competition Mal. She was sold to me because she had some issues that would have prevented her from winning national level competition in French Ring. She was not the strongest dog in the world, very handler soft, and a little nervy. NERVY YOU SAY, OMG!!!!!!

I had to learn how to train differently. I had to learn how to handle a handler sensitive dog. I also was fortunate enough to work with very good trainers who understood the correlation between nerve and aggression and knew how to shape it. She titled in French Ring, I won a national championship in NAPD which was essentially the same as police dog trails, and placed 2nd in a PSA western regional. She was completly social and safe around people. Not everyone's friend, she could take you or leave you, but if you played ball with her that was great. Couldn't have her around small squeeling children because the prey drive took over and they became bunny rabbits.

That dog in the wrong hands or not trained properly would have been ruined.

Con't