The Beauceron from Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show 08 - Page 2

<<The judge could have DQ'd or excused that dog from the ring. Instead he opted to give him another chance. Most judges do not do that at AKC shows and would have either DQ'd or excused the dog. If it weren't Westminster I suspect the handler would have been asked to leave the ring with the dog.>>

Blitzen is right.  Although I would add that another reason for giving another chance was that this was the Group judging and he knew the dog had already passed the breed level without being kicked out.  He put his hand on the dog's head twice more and the dog was fine so he let it pass rather than DQ it from the Westminster Group judging and then he simply never looked at the dog again.  It'd blown any possible chance of a Group placing.  I think the consequences in the breed ring would've been more severe.

I'm normally a stickler for these things but I understand and agree with what this judge did AT THIS TIME WITH THIS ONE DOG.

Beepy, I've only seen Crufts on TV, never been to a show in the UK. However I do think the style of handling there is different than here. At US shows I often see handlers holding their dogs by the muzzle when the judges examines them. It is considered a courtesy here and is not necessarily an indication that the dog is unstable and will bite the judge if it's not prevented from doing so. Looking at bites also varies here. Some judges ask the handler to show the mouth while other judges want to do it themselves.  Not all breeds ask for full dentition or talk about the occlusion of the side bite in which case the judge will only look at the way the incisors meet. They may do that themselves or ask the handler to do it. This became a tradition when parvo was first diagnosed and there was a concern that judges could spread bacteria and virsus from one dog to the next. Seeing a handler here in the US show a mouth or hold a muzzle doesn't stand for anything at all. It's just the way we do it here.

As I stated before the handler only covered the muzzle after the dog showed its temperment.  None of the other handlers displayed the same muzzle holding.

As I have previously stated no dog should show itself to be unsound in temperment in the ring - it does not demonstrate a good example of the breed.  As for the ways of checking teeth it is similar here in the UK, some judges do it themselves, some get the handlers to do it and breeds such as pugs never get their teeth checked - no surprise there.

Crufts is only one of many shows held here in the UK and at the weekend I attended a Working and Pastoral Championship show and I cant imagine any dog showing similar temperment getting through the process.  As for Tess's comment that it had already been through the breed class excusing its temperment - what rot!  It had most probably already done a similar behaviour and gotten away with it.

Here in the UK I have seen judges not have the strength of mind to refuse a 1st to  poor dog in a low numbered class and I guess this just shows that its something that can be found across the water too.  What a shame.

Oops - forgot to add my last reason:  the fact that it was Westminster, not entirely because it was "Westminster" but many of the dogs coming in to that W. Group ring have never before seen such a place with the stadium seating and the lights and the noise and the huge crowd. 

You're right, NOT an excuse for poor temperment, and the dog IMO was never considered a moment after that spook, but another reason why I think the judge let it pass.  Had he jumped again either of the other times the judge's hand was on his head I think he would've been dismissed.

Also, yes, most handlers hold the muzzle or head but I do think the way she did it she was administering a little correction, a "Hey, Pay Attention - doesn't matter if it's crazy in here" IOW straighten-up-and-fly-right, buster! (LOL).

I saw the tail clamping but couldn't rule it as a nerve issue. My dogs doesn't like anyone playing with his nuts or butt either. Anyone wanna have a go at taking his temp? Beuc's are allot like Rott's in that they are aloof and distusting of people. Hello they were bred as a guard dog. When is it OK for some stranger to walk up to guard dog type dogs and get all handsy? Sure the dog needs more practice and thats he handlers job. If the dog was a nerve bag, he wolud have snapped and bit but he held himslef. He did jerk or react because he was displeased but I don't think he overly reacted.

Having both shown GSD's and other breeds the norm for male dogs is to have their testicles checked and almost weighed for balance.  For a dog to have gotten to this level it would have been checked numerous times just like its teetch get checked.

Yes its something that they shouldnt have to tolerate in the street but in the ring they should be expecting it and its not like the judge came from no where and shoved a hand between his legs.

I realize that, maybe the dog didn't like something about that guy. Dogs get attitudes and have prefferences too. If the dog got that far, he can't be too out of control.

 Beauceron's from what I know-which is minimal- don't really like people other than their handler just like a good GSD. They tolerate them but don't have an affinity.  They are herding/working dogs who are focused on the sheep/their job. If they are good ones a dog show is not exactly up their alley. Not what they are bred for. They are also referred to as French Shepherds. I don't see anything wrong with that dog. The fact that that dog was uncomfortable in that element just might mean he's a good representative of his breed. my .02

And, if that dog was seriously out for the judge that little bit of holding on the muzzle by the handler would have meant nothing.

I don't go that far ("I don't see anything wrong with that dog.")  It's behavior was wrong.  Yes, they're bred to be aloof.  So are Shelties, but they'd better not jump like that in a dog show.  This dog has been shown enough to be a Champion (Westminster is only for dogs already Champions) so he should have the experience and the training - he knows the drill of what happens in a dog show.  With all that being said, the fact that he's uncomfortable in a dog show does NOT make him a good representative of his breed.  A good representative of the breed is aloof and confident, not jumpy.  HOWEVER, for all the reasons I gave in earlier posts, I understand why what happened, happened, and why the judge gave him the benefit of the doubt.  If I were interested in that dog for breeding or buying, I'd darn sure check him out thoroughly to see if that was a one-shot deal (who knows?  the dog might actually be quite young & inexperienced and it was the only spook of his life). 

So - I understand what happened but yes, I do consider that Strike 1 against that dog.

 ok maybe so, like I said I'm no expert, especially where Westminster and that sort is concerned. I have never spent any time at all being concerned with Westminster.