Inbreeding - Page 1

There is always a lot of talk of close linebreeding and inbreeding. Is Inbreeding always bad. I have seen good productions from 2-2 Linebreeding and even breedings between full siblings. Exactly how bad is a 2-1 inbreeding? The reason I ask because a friend of mine owns two absolutely gorgeous black and red males who are brothers and they are the product of a mother/son breeding. The breeder imported two Kirschental dogs bred them and kept a puppy and the one day mother/son bred. Here is are links to the males pedigree and pics: I just would like opinions on how this type of breeding could be harmful or helpful

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/555690.html and http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/503713.html

gimme,

Interesting questions.  I, just a personal pref., don't like to see any common ancest. when I do a breeding.  However, I've been told..... *rolling eyes*, that inbreeding doesn't really make stupid dogs, it merely brings any faults or genetic defects closer to the top.  Take that for what it's worth.

BEAUTIFUL dogs, BTW

Inbreeding isn't inherently bad... nor is it inherently good.

It's the best way to express traits (positive and negative) in a bloodline.

However, since negative traits can be expressed with disasterous results (genetic problems that affect organs, etc) it's generally not recommended to be done unless someone is beyond absolutely sure what their lines contain.

In most all circumstances, I think this is a little too close to comfort.

Tight inbreeding, (parent x offspring; sibling x sibling) can be one of the best things one can do for a bloodline, or it can completely destroy the line in one generation. Before I ever started breeding dogs I spent a lot of time with practical genetics on fruit flies and mice in research settings. Genetics has always been a hobby of mine.

I linebred a mouse colony starting with a son x mother cross and repeated breeding offspring to parent for several generations. Ironically it did fine for a while until the homozygous expression of a lethal gene which essentially wiped out that entire colony. Had I paid more attention, I might have noticed it... then again I might not have.

Of course by that point my entire colony had the heterozygous expression of the trait, so there was no way I could do further breedings without producing homozygous expression, and more deaths. So... I would up with a LOTof pet mice *laughs*

Your friend should not have used the "Kirschental " kennel name to name their pups it is misleading.  Only in the USA do you see this.  If they are going to keep intact animals they need to be more careful IMO.  Accidental inbred litters shouldn't be happening!

The two you posted above are indeed beautiful , nice headed , and great pigmentation,  german shepherds.

It will remain to be seen, about the health and other structural problems that can appear from such a close breeding..Only time will tell any of us about that....you cannot assume...you have to wait on the inevitable or not the inevitable.

To be sure, you must keep them and log all their years of growth, health, good or bad   and  keep very good records to prove your outcome on this.

They were lucky to get two very nice dogs out of such a close breeding    interesting to watch the recults as they grow  Are they keeping these two above ?

Whoops breedings are not to easily accepted.    Hope they dont let it happen again.

These guys are almost three years old and have both sired litters of pups that look just like them. They pigment is dominant. They seem to be very healthy. They haven't had hips and elbows done. I think they may be good producers as long as the females they are bred too are not related to them in anyway. The female should come from totally different lines.

look no furthur to see what is wrong with this...when the immune system disorders, general intelligence and other issues present they may never even know if they missed having hip films done why bother with the rest..inbreeding and close line breeding is the reason so many issues today with this breed as many others...I am my own grandpa syndrome...get theat rich color most important every thing else does not matter..I think AKC should step up and not register this type of breedings but money is what they are about not the health of the dog..it makes me sad everytime I read one of these posts....GSMOM you are correct I get asked what are they thinking by people in Europe and my only answer is because they can! Marlene

Google- inbreeding dogs. Canine genetic experts agree that inbreeding from time to time is needed to set type and to identify the good and bad in the gene pool. Willy nilly breeding of this unrelated dog to that unrelated dog is not a  scientifically sound breeding program.  There is no scientific reason to not inbreed dogs from time to time. The defenses against it are emotional.  There is far more evidence that constant outcrossing causes more damage to any breed by weakening gene pool far more than selective inbeeding has ever done.  When you have a gene pool as large as that of the GSD, inbreeding is not reducing that gene pool. There are plenty of unrelated, outcrossed dogs around to maintain diversity if one looks beyond the current crop of winners. The whole idea is to inbreed, then take the best of that breeding and outcross it to another inbred or linebred dog from unrelated lines. 

Blitzen, Basically what you wrote is very accurate. There is nothing wrong with inbreeding in extreme instances to set type by using two "proven exemplary" animals. Having said that if you do "set type this way then you should immediately go out to other lines to continue your program. You cannot continue to inbreed over a period of time without increasing mental and physical problems. also, if you "linebreed for 10 generations on the same two or three dogs(Canto, Quanto,etc) you will also see an increase in loss of mental and physical abilities. If it wasn't for inbreeding this breed could not have been established by the Captain. Wolves and dog packs do it also without crippling extinction taking place. In the wild there are built in safeguards of culling and only the strongest getting to breed that ensures the use of the best dogs for this practice. Man often does it to excess or with less than superior animals and problems sometimes occur early. Anybody that completely condemns the practice of inbreeding or believes it leads to inordinate damage when done correctly with the right animals is limited in knowledge or looking at this emotionally or humanistically. The facts of its use don't support that it has no value....and I always use facts over people's opinions unless the opinions are in line with the facts!!