Looking for advice- Vets stumped, litter is dying, dam dead - Page 1

Two weeks ago my friend's dam died after a c-section. Half the litter is also now dead. Looking for insight anywhere I can find it to offer help to save the rest. 

The dam was overseas on a search prior to being bred twice, three days apart. She did not stop bleeding as would have been expected, and bled about 6 weeks during her heat. She had edema in her legs at the end of her pregnancy.

Vets were not concerned and she was seen multiple times for these issues. At the end, she was seen by an ER vet who did xrays and told the worried owner to go home and calm down (that was a stupid vet, I think). Less than an hour later, mom began laboring and gave birth to the first 8 puppies. One was not fully formed.

She ran into problems about 12 hours in and was taken back to the ER, who recommended she be taken to the regular vet for a c-section at 7 am. 

Regular vet did c-section, getting an additional 8 puppies. One more not fully formed, two who didn't survive the csection (one of whom was the one blocking the path). 

Mom is sent home. Is listless, has blood diarrhea and goes back to the ER same night. Put on IV. Dead within 36 hours of the csection. White blood count is less than 1, indicating a virus. Vets also diagnose HGE. 

We haven't gotten necropsy results back from her, but so far 9 of her 16 puppies have died. After the first four at birth, 5 more have had seizures and no white blood count at all before dying. They cry terribly and their skin becomes very taught. They aren't retaining water and are not dehydrated. They have all been under nearly daily vet care since birth, although they were all fine the first week. (13 days old now).   Some of each group, natural birth and csection, have died. 

Vets can't figure out what to do to save them. Currently they are on clavamox, gas drops, plasma every 12 hours (just for the past 24) and were on metronidazol, but have been taken off that. Have been on cephalexin prior to the clavamox since they were 3 days old (now 13 days). Sub-cu fluids as needed. Neg. for parvo. 

The remaining 7 are dying still. 

Any breeders out there have any idea what would take out a whole litter of puppies and mom?

The only thing it is looking like is a possibility is canine herpes virus, but a few things still don't match.  Her vet is looking into using antiviral drugs, but I know we have lots of experience on this board and thought it couldn't hurt to ask......

Canine Herpes is a good possibility and is easy to check for by a necropsy on a pup. Why has one not been done?  When did signs show up and what were they? there are some clues that can be gained. There are other viral  possibilities. The mother could also have been tested for antibodies. But it is probably she died from some other cause. All aspects of her mating and her life prior to the whelping should be investigated. If the pups do have herpes, it MIGHT be possible to save them with acyclovir or another antiviral, but it might also be too late. 

Definitely a sad story.

My first thought as well... herpes.

I hope the vets know enough to do an necropsy on the pups who died?  If they didn't, then they aren't much in my opinion, as this is the surest way to determine canine herpes infection.  If it is canine herpes, there will be inclusion bodies on the internal organs,which on the pictures I saw reminded me of blisters.  If the next one dies, put it in a baggie in the refrigerator, not the freezer, and take it for a necropsy.

Pups will also die if they do not get maternal antibodies from the colostrum.  It can be very difficult to prevent viruses from coming in and taking over the pups, as even an ordinarily virus usually shaken off by a healthy puppy is a bad thing if there is no colostrum.

This does not sound like a genetic issue to me, but I'm not a reproductive veterinarian specialist, so don't go to the bank on my opinion.

This is a tragic happenstance on bitch and puppies, I feel terrible for your friend (and you too, I think the situation is affecting you also! )

If you think it is canine herpes, you need to heat the puppies environment up to normal canine body temperature.  The virus is not able to survive at higher temperatures.  This will not necessarily save the puppies, but it is one of the few things you can do to try to save them (according to some sources, and not useful at all from others).  Unfortunately, it is also thought that pups who survive might have internal damage for life. 

It is thought that 80% of all dogs in Europe have the herpes virus.  Some sources say it can be airbourne, and infection can happen if one dog sniffs another dog's butt at the show, other sources say it is NOT airborne.  Some sources believe that there are new strains of canine herpes that are more virulent, infection can be airborne, and according to titer levels, a bitch could continue to have issues with litters again later in life.

There is a lot of information and misinformation on the web about canine herpes while not enough scientific studies done on it, because I don't think the majority of veterinarians and the USA medical industry in general care about the issues of breeders and canine reproduction.  That's only an opinion, but one widely shared.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_herpes_infection.html

http://www.2ndchance.info/herpesvirusdog.htm

http://pethealth.petwellbeing.com/wiki/Dog_Herpes_Infection

First pup other than the ones at birth died Friday night - so they were sent out today for necropsy.
They were all doing fine until last Thursday, the first ones started vomiting (they are being tube fed) and having the tight skin and crying. Immediately went to the vet. Then they just started dropping. 

I think they are going to try acyclovir and give it a shot.   

This was a house dog who was also a very accomplished search dog. Very possible she picked up something while on a search in the Caribbean. She was 4, and this was her second and last litter, designed to produce the next generation of search dog.  She wasn't in a kennel environment, although she had been required to be vaccinated again for Parvo a few weeks before the search. 

Thanks :)

Veronica, This is awful (and don't tell my husband) but I would give up my female GSD to bring back the dam. I am just devastated beyond belief for my friend. I have been with the mom since she was 2 days old, and seen her no less that weekly for over 4 years. She was the youngest of her breed to have an AKC CD (6 months and 6 days). She has a national SAR certification at 9 months old, and never stopped getting more and more recognition.

Hopefully she can save a puppy or two at least. I'll pass on everyone's thoughts, to add in with what the vets are telling her. 

(PS - I've only had my gsd girl for like 6 months - and she is a PITA - but my husband loves her - so don't think I am terrible)

I wish I had some divine wisdom to share.  This sounds like an absolute nightmare.  My condolences.

Was the bitch given some kind of hormone therapy to induce such a large litter?  Carrying a litter of 16 pups, delivering 8 and c-section for an additional 8...and she bled through 6 of the 9 weeks for gestation?!?!   It sounds exhausting in itself.  Poor girl. 

Are the puppies getting tube fed or bottle fed?  What type of milk are they getting?  How much and how often?

She sounds like she was a wonderfu bitch.  I am so sorry for everyone's loss...even society lost on this one, she was a benefit to us all being a wonderful SAR dog. 

Veronica

I am so very sorry to hear this, good luck and God bless you all.

Where abroad was she?  Were there any skin lesions? Since you said abroad and edema, I'm thinking leishmaniasis.