Opinions on Best Lines & Learning Your Lines - Page 1

Hello everyone! I hope everyone is having a good 4th of July. Happy Independence Day!!!

I am wondering how everyone finds out what lines they have in their dog's pedigree. I mean, I know how to determind if champion (show) or working lines. But my question is, how do you know if the lines are German, DDR, American, etc.?

I would also like to know what everyone thinks about certain lines. Are certain ones have better drives? What type of lines is everyone's favorite? If you breed a certain line, why? I heard somewhere that DDR line Shepherd have more energy, eat more, and are a bit harder to train. What does everyone think about that? Is it true? I guess I am really wondering why people stick with perdicular pedigree lines.

Sorry if someone else already asked these questions.
Thanks in Advance,
Nikki

The only way to really tell the difference is to start studying pedigrees.  Eventually you'll come to recognize the difference between DDR, West German working, Belgium, West German Show and American lines. 

When I first started researching my first "big buy" German Shepherd I thought I wanted German Showlines.  I fell in love with their looks.  But I wanted to start in Schutzhund and by cruising different boards and looking at pedigrees, I decided to go with the German working line.  Then I started reading up on the different breeders and what they were breeding.  After a bit it all started to click and I got a handle on what I wanted and what I didn't want. 

There will be different opinions on all the different lines, good and bad.  DDR dogs can tend to mature more slowly and therefore seem harder to train.  LOL never heard the "they eat more" one though.  I think my West German working dogs are high energy but a DDR person may argue otherwise. 

Basically it's up to you to decide what kind of look you like in a dog and what you want to do with that dog.  How much energy can you live with or would you rather hit the show ring? 

Read as much as you can about GSDs and study pedigrees. Eventually you will learn which kennels are which. If the kennel has a webpage, it should tell you where it is located although keep in mind that there are West German and American working line kennels. If an American kennel shows in Germany, it may be either show or working lines depending on what shows they go to. Everyone has an opinion about which type of GSD is best and fits the breed standard the best. Based on the posts I've read lately, there are fans of AKC and UKC showlines, WEst German showlines, and West German, DDR, CZech, etc. working lines on this board.  It all depends on what kind of dog you are looking for. Not every GSD is suited for every kind of activity GSDs participate in. A cop wants a different dog than a blind person does, for example.

German showlines:
All the dogs have V or VA conformation ratings
Sire's usually have SchH3 and Dam's usually (when compared to workingline pedigrees) only have a SchH1 (dam's usually don't go for higher titles usually because their focus is for the conformation ring not the SchH field/competition). Color is almost always Saddleback black and red, sometimes/rarely sable or solid black.

German Workingline:
Conformation ratings are usually G or SG, somtimes V (V is not the norm for workinlines because working ability comes before confromation), sometimes no conformation rating at all (some workingline folk have no desire to step in the showring and don't bother with it)
The sires will usually have SchH3, some to many dogs in the pedigree will have competed at Natl. International level in SchH competition (BSP, WUSV). Dams will usually have SchH2 or SchH3 (focus is on the Schh field, top scores and high placements).
Color is almost always sable, solid black, bi-color, blanket black and tan/red...sometimes, rarely saddleback black and tan/red but usually only when there's some showline mixed in the pedigree somewhere.
 

Here are typical pedigrees of the different varieties.  Look at what each dog in the pedigree has in common with one another and how that differs from the other pedigrees (working titles, conformation ratings, high level competitions/shows).  Once you get familiar with recognizing these things it's very easy to tell the difference at first glance.

German Workingline

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/50650.html

American Showline (AKC style), I won't get into Am breds but here's a pedigree for examples sake

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/556302.html

German Showline

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/341400.html

It's not SchH titles that make a workinline a workingline, SchH titles are considered a given in europe, it is the intent or interst of the breeding and past breeding (pedigree)...either showring or SchH field...structure or performence...Rolls Royce or Porche.
 

Also the dogs with show German show ratings are German lines, even if they've been bred a few generations in the us you can tell when or what generation they were imported by the registration numbers...if they have SZ numbers they were born in Germany, if they have AKC numbers they were imported to the US or born here.

Thank you to everyone. You all have been great help. Let see if I can find out what my girl's past is full of. My baby's name is O'Neil's Rocky Mud Mercedes. She is on the database.
Sadie has some SG and V, so I am guessing German Workinglines. Right? What does it mean when it say AKC/DL? What does the DL stand for?
The more famous dogs in the pedigree, are usually the ones that have great titles and have produced more pups than you can count on your fingers and toes. Kind of? In Sadie's pedigree, I know that SG Lord vom Gleisdreieck, Vico vom Wolfendobel, Tiekerhook, SG Storm v. Tiekerhook, Boss von der haus Kulla, etc.
What other famous dogs would you say on in her pedigree?

Thanks a head of time again,
Nikki

Hi Nikki,

The "V" and "SG" rating can be from either working lines and/or show lines. I believe that the DL that you are asking about is the AKC DL registration number?  Lord is DDR and the rest that you named off are from west working.  Tiekerhook is very well known for their high drive and working abilities. I have 3 pups that are 88.5% DDR and the rest is west working, because of having the DDR in them they took 13 months before they wanted to do any kind of training, that's where the slow maturity comes in play. I feel it does depend on their lines though, as I had a full DDR girl that was ready to train at 2 months old, so it does vary. Some can take up to 36 months(what I have heard) to mature, but I feel the wait is worth it all when you see the final outcome. I also have a 50% west working 50% DDR male and very much like this combination. He is high in drive for the work and yet easy to train, and clear headed.  It is all going to depend on what will fit your lifestyle and you. As far as learning pedigree's go study, study, study. I myself will forever be learning about pedigree's and dog's.

Kelly M Shaw,

The DL is within the AKC registration number. I was just curious about it because some have DN and others have DL. It maybe something with AKC tracking their numbers. I am not really sure about that one. I think Sadie, my female, has mostly only West German Lines. I really like the look of the sables personally. But every shepherd is different, so the lines to me really did not matter when I got my girl. Being curious just got to me I guess.

So basically all lines can be mixed? Is there any lines that should not be mixed? Or is it just really what the breeder is looking for and wants?

Thanks
Nikki

I think it all depends on what the breeder wants and is looking for. If they want to add more bone, bulk, health, structure, drives, etc. Sometimes you will find DDR lines mixed with American to bring bigger bone for the puppies. It really depends on what they want to sell to the public and what is best for what they want in their breeding program. I believe all lines can be mixed if that is what a breeder wants and is looking for.

Kelly,

Thank-you for your help. I personally like the big bolky head and more muscle look on the male along with dark colors. For females, I just have not really decided what I truly like yet.

Thanks though
Nikki