Sport Title v.s. Breed Worthyness title. in Sch. - Page 1

This is where I,d like to see Schutzhund go. Leave the present trial system in place for the sport folks,Create a true breed worthiness test that all breeding dogs must pass to get papers and register the litter. The orginization could hold breed tests in each region at set dates through out the year each dog must pass 3 tests to be considered breed worthy. the breed test criteria could be applied to truley test the strenght of the dog to inhance the breed  in all 3 phases. Now i know the show folks would not stand for it, The puppy peddlers would not stand for it, but just think  what it would do for the breed for once put the breed ahead of the profit and personal glory, what a novel idea do something that is purley for the betterment of the breed with out politics, dictating the outcome.   

http://www.sv-2000.de/de/55/Service__Downloads.html

the bottom link is in english. 

john

http://www.sv-2000.de/de/55/Service__Downloads.html

the bottom link is in english. 

john

Don't forget to add that the dog should be "a1" on hips, normal on elbows, Kkl1 in anatomy and a minimum of V rated in the show ring, nothing less should be accepted. What a novel idea, would the working folks stand for that???????? 

Ya i think we saw that out in california at the seiger show lots of v and va not much working abality, conformation is a breed requirment but not as it is today it has became a detractor from the abality of the working dog. seek the truth and it shall set you free or does the truth hurt?    

Your preaching to the choir, there are MANY great representatives from BOTH lines that can work and conform to the standard. If you or any other "proclaimed breeder" can not tell the difference then shame on you, you shouldn't be breeding in the first place. The ones with their heads in the sand are the ones that are blind. This subject has already been beaten to death adnauseum so get off your soap box, and yes,  the truth will set you free .... or does this truth hurt????

The beauty of the dog is in his utility! Bob don't waste yout time. The most important features of the GS should be what enhances his ability to "work". If you look at the great dogs of the 40's, 50's and 60's, most of them would not V rate today....look at the great dogs of the 20's 30's and probably none of them would V rate. ...What these great dogs had in common was the ability to work and pass these genetics down so we are where we are today(if the dog will work). You donot see all the V of that day the same color and extreme in angulation. Why??????? Is it possible that with the advent of this only V type, we have had the decline in working ability???? Let's be honest!! I look at some of the HGH champions of 40's and 50's and todays show people would say these dogs can't gait all day and are incorrect conformationally. But....the reality is these dogs were Herding champions that did herd all day and not theorist who propagate BS so they can continue to breed these V dogs that aren't living up to the working standard as a whole. When working doesn't set the "conformation" standard you end up in the condition the breed is today. Bob I agree, but the you will get typical attitudes that won't account for the lack of working ability as a norm and try to make things more important that allows them to breed with marginal working stock.

Well let's see now, SchH did not evolve into a "sport" until the early 1950's, working ability AND conformation have been judged in the BSZS some 50 years before the advent of the BSP. How would you know what a good working dog was in the 20's, 30's, 40's or 50's anyway???? Why is it that you use the piss poor performances of some so called VA dogs at a USA Sieger Show to make your point? Do you actually believe that knowledgeable people do not see these dogs for what they are? So tell me, now who's propagating the BS?? Breeder's like the Fuller's have been producing herding champions for decades and they have done so using predominately show lines, I guess you would consider yourself more knowledgeable then they are? What you and every other working and show-line "extremist freak" fail to see is that no one is holding a loaded gun to your head and dictating to you who or what to breed, if you had half a brain and a little bit of knowledge you would be able to see that. Unfortunately it's the extremists and uneducated folks such as you that blindly follow what the masses do, can't you think for yourself? Are you really that blind? Does the money that the show-line folks get for puppies make you envious? I think you really need to take a step back and learn a little more before you try to preach your misinformed extremist BS. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

WAKE UP FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!!

Bob just curious.  What specifically would you like to see changed about the SchH routine to make it better evaluate breed worthiness?  IMO there's nothing wrong with it as it is now to evaluate breed worthiness, IMO what should be tweaked is the TSB rating....Prounounced ratings are handed out too freely IMO.  SchH as it is now tests the dogs working ability and nerve, sure there are some weak-er dogs who can pass, but IMO their weakness should be reflected in their TSB rating. 

Perhaps include an extra rating above pronounced to give the extra strong dogs?

Why do you change my premise to make your point!!!!! I didnot not speak about BSP, I spoke about HGH. There were no HGH dogs in the 30's 40's 50's to see the anatomical differences????? Also,I'm following the" masses," No!!!! the masses are the black and red showline dog as it comprmoises 65 to 70 percent of all German Shepherds in Germany...so who is following the masses. Karl Fuller has incorporated showlines into his herding stock....and I have respect for Karl, but what about others such as Willie Etzel, Manfred Voight, Herbert Kind, Edwin Becker, Gerd Jahnke, etc, are they using V rated conformation dogs or are they using herding stock from generations,that are SG at best by today's standards....don't they want the advantage that comes from having superior anatomical stock of "V". If I had half a brain and a little bit of knowledge would I have imported a Marko vom Cellerland son in the 70's,you know dimwitted people sometimes get things right.(BTW, Marko as you know was show but he was also out of HGH lineage and the showline people eliminated his blood from the "high lines" because of the new type he didn't produce. That he was World Seiger and has a reputation through the Maineche lines of produving "V dogs" in conformation and work was not as important as color....Sad!!!) You can belittle me all you want but I deal in facts and reality and you don't have a clue as to my knowledge base....so we will end this with you being of superior intellect and me the half brained one going our separate ways....Thanks for your discourse!