Breeder Question - Page 1

Just wondering how  you would deal with this.

I contacted a breeder after i checked references.Told her what i was looking for in a dog.Had one picked out but needed a day or two to decide <told her that> well guess I waited to long.Well then she says she is sorry for selling the pupp <she knew i was really interested>But she had a nice pup for me biggest pup in the litter . Going to be a good size female .Oh and she said  give me a deal on her. As soon as i got pup she went everywheres with me to socialize her Because when i got her a tad shy which breeder told me she'll come out of it .Kept breeder updated on her progress.Well the pup now is almost 2 yrs old and about the size of a sheltie<55 lbs> and very timid people come over she is off in a corner.So i called breeder and emailed and no response well finally email and told them  i found an elderly couple who would like to try her out and they are to fix her So i GAVE the dog to them.And i mentioned that i was going to post  on bulletin to see how breeders would handle this .Ok she knew when i was giving the pup to the couple.A day after I gave the pup i get an email from them saying she did response to my emails which i never got. She says i would've taken pup back and replaced with another.Ok dog comes back even to shy for the elderly couple.So I called the breeder because in email she wanted to know how the dog is doing.She says ok send her back to her Thursday good day for her to pick pup up @ airport.So took dog to vet and got health cert. and made arrangements to airport<150 miles away> She was going to make the reservations.Ok since then left about 5 messeges on both home phone and cell an numerous emails and no response.Well this makes me think  since she knew i gave dog away good time to say I would've taken dog back.I have to say she is a very pleasent person to talk to and she sounds like she knows what she is doing.Well here it is saturday and still nothing from her.Now am I asking to much for a replacement pup? Don't want to mention breeder just yet because i know things come up unexpectedly in life and she might have had an emergency.But then makes me think of no return calls from cell.

Thanks

Zig

Zig, I notice a pattern here, and I think you do as well. In essence, this "breeder" has not maintained contact by her choice. I think all of her tactics are stall tactics and she never meant to honour any part of your agreement, written and/or verbal. In short, this constitutes dodging the issue, or in more strong terms-lying.

I could be wrong, but I do not think that you will ever get a replacement puppy from this breeder. She will not return e-mail messages or telephone calls, so why would she do anything else? My advice? Take good care of the puppy that you bought from her for the rest of its life. It is not the puppy's fault, and it sounds as if it is otherwise a healthy puppy. I would dismiss this breeder as a person of their word, and find another puppy from another breeder.

Yes, unexpected things happen in all of our lives, and we deal with them. I think the  this breeder's Modus Operandi was established shortly after the point of sale to you. Care for the puppy you own, and seek another puppy from another breeder.

Good Luck!

Bob-O

Zig -

  I get what you're saying but I just want to say that a 55 bitch is not out of the question. That would be the typical size of my girls 55/60 and a lot of the girls that come through foster. It sound slike you wanted a large bitch which is fine if she is already older and almost at the end of her growth. A young puppy, a breeder would not be able to say how large she would get. My first GSD was from a very large father (about 100#) and mom was about 60. My girl and her sister both ended up being the typical 54 pounds and her sister was about the same. Also, I had a pup in one of my litters we called "Tiny" cause he was the runt, he blew by the others by 5 months of age, got a head to die for, and get stocky. He is a solid 85 pounds and looking good at that weight. his brothers are 70 to 75 pounds and the girls are about 60. A breeder can not promise size as food and environment, medical care, etc all play a roll in the final outcome.

   As for the shyness, what age was she when she was sold the first time?

Tina

Yes, and while 55-pound bitch is towards the small end of the size spectrum she is still well within the breed standard and smaller dogs tend to be a bit healthier. No breeder can make any guarantee of the final size of a GSD at the early part of its life. I tried several times to log size changes through a spreadsheet programme, and in the end I had a lot of data but no conclusion so I scrapped the idea. It is very easy for the smallest puppy to become the largest and the largest puppy to become the smallest when fully grown. At the age of six (6) months there is a better estimation of final size, but it is only an estimation.

An ethical breeder can only promise; that the puppy when fully grown will be within the breed standard-no other promises are valid. The breeder cannot guarantee the temperament, as environmental influences, good and bad, shape a large portion of that characteristic. Certian puppies do "come out of their shell" so to speak, but I think this has more to do with hormonal changes as they mature. A proper temperament evaluation at an early age can detect the inclination towards very passive behaviour, i.e. shyness. This bitch is now two (2) years of age, and is what she is-shy. That will never change.

Zig, I just offer this advice for your next puppy. Seek a breeder that does a valid temperament evaluation, and bear in mind even this is no guarantee of the final outcome. But it can detect things that are at the extreme ends of the evaluation score. Purchase an older puppy if you can, as at the age of eight (8) weeks there is so much that cannot be determined. In the end, I still think you should wash your hands of this breeder and seek someone else. You kept this puppy and it grew to be an adult bitch. I know that many would say that this puppy should have been replaced eighteen (18) months ago, and you are stuck with her. I tend to agree with that as well, and repeat myself to say that you need to provide her with a good life while you seek another puppy.

Regards,

Bob-O 

Just so you know i treat her like I do my other shepherds<spoiled>.I do not take it out on her because i do know it's not her fault. It's really to bad she is so timid.Had her hips xrayed @8 months old vets says excellent hips and elbows.and she smart as a whip.And when she is out running around it's like she was shot out of a gun.The dog has speed.

  Thanks for your replies

  Zig

It is good the dog has a nice home but on the other side the breeder should have sold the dog as pet quality. From what I have read I agree with Bob and imo it is very likely the breeder knew the pup was timid and dumped her off on you. Also imo most if not all timid dogs never grow out of it. You can help them gain confidence etc but if I am wanting a strong confident dog then I would never buy one showing signs of shyness and being timid.  You were likely taken advantage of.

As for the size 55 lbs is perfectly fine. A pup should be a happy outgoing confident and drive you crazy but never timid...

What did you tell the breeder you wanted to do with the puppy?  Don't get me wrong - a shy puppy should not have been sold without the breeder giving you an accurate assessment of the puppy.  But since she is already 2 years,I would just love and care for as you have been doing and hopefully she will be a good pet.  If the puppy was timid when you got her then any good breeder would have known this.  So do not get another dog from this person.  As for references, I 'm sure she did not give out any references that would say uncomplimentary things about her.  Next time try to get a vet reference.  They usually will not say anything bad, but you can tell a lot by how they answer your questions, i.e. tone of voice, evasive answer, etc.

Judy