SchH vs PSA ...an observation - Page 1

I often find myslef defending PSA to the SchH folks and defending SchH to the PSA folks.  Trying to get each to look at the big picture. 

PSA folks main gripe about SchH is that it's fake, routine and full of sleeve sucking dogs (equipment oriented).  My feeling is that most of these people are putting down the sport because the time and training required to get a dog to competition level evenly in all three phases is more than they are willing to invest.  SchH requires hard work and dedication and I am always a bit offended if they don't respect that.  I always say SchH is a SPORT and breed test...it's not intended to test the hardest of the hard, it's meant to test the working ability and nerve of breeding stock.  If one wants to train and test their dog for real life situations and lots of pressure then do so, but don't put down a sport that was never intended for that purpose.  If people want their dog civil and not equipment oriented then TRAIN for it, some people dont' care and look at SchH as a sport and hobby...there is no need for all the hating.  If one respect the time and effort required to title a dog in SchH, I will respect ones feeling that SchH just doesn't suit their interests.

SchH folks, either I get an excited interest and lots of questions or they ask me why I started doing PSA, as they curl their lip.  IMO PSA tests the dogs nerves and control at a much higher level than SchH.  It peaked my interest and I thought my dog was capable of more in this dept.  than SchH required.  It has been a great experience and I'm very glad to have explored it, and will hopefully benefit my SchH dogs in the future.  I don't understand why people put down and critisize a venue that requires so much more control and applies a greater amount of pressure.  It is testing the dog to a higher level is it not?

IMO why can't everyone respect eachother's sport and respect that, that is where their interest lies instead of putting it down to create an excuse as to why you don't try it?

I respect SchH for the time and dedication involved to get a dog trained evenly in all three phases.  I respect PSA for the level of control, hardness and nerve it requires.  Why can't we all just get along?

We have a club member whoes SchH3 dog "Lodi" has been retired from Schutzhund due to a bad hip which was actually replaced, and then he had cancer in the back leg and had a large piece of muscle removed, so he can't jump anymore.  Lodi still loves to bite, and still has great OB.

Our club helper Jose Lopez is awesome, not just as helper in SchH, but he is a PSA decoy, also does ring sport and is just a great guy all around!  He convinced Douglas that Lodi can still work and that they would do well in PSA, so after many months of training, Douglas and Lodi earned their PSA1 last weekend.  Not only did they earn their PSA1, the took first place OB, first place Protection, HIGH in trial and HIGH Hot, basically he kicked ass!

Everyone at our club is very proud of Douglas and Lodi, and we have all been supportive, especially our helper, Jose.  I think it all just depends on the type of people you are around.  We have people in our club that are mostly SchH people but we also have three dogs training in Mondio, and of course Douglas and Lodi in PSA.  We all get along just fine, and have no problem with one sport or another, so long as the dog is controllable and the handler is being safe!

"Lodi " Artemis von Kiefern Tal SchH3, IPO3, FH PSA1  he is a cool dog!

 GSDfan,

As much as I think you have a good view of things, I hate to tell you that you are likely wasting your time. Too many people involved in these types of activities have NO desire to know anything else but what they are doing at the moment. The sport of SchH or PSA becomes a thing in and of itself and anyone who does not agree with some of these people will never make any headway. They do not want to know more. It is no different than the SchH people and the police trainers. Each is sure his/her method is the only method to accomplish a goal. People want to stay in their zone of comfort. Few are willing to step outside that boundary. After all, one might fail there and that is too scary for some whose entire sense of self-worth is only about a dog, SchH or PSA. It is unfortunate, but it is the nature of the beast.

Just keep your open mind and learn. Soon you will know more than all of them and most importantly, hopefully will be able to put it to use.

Good luck.

Hodie's note posted while I was writing mine, but I'll add, we often have police officer's bring their K9 partners out to train with Jose as well, he is a very versatile helper and we are very lucky to have him as a friend!

You people are lucky in the US with different types of dog sports. In the UK, apart from 2 clubs to my knowledge who do Mondio and KNPV we don't get a chance to experience ring sports.

I am interested to find out a bit more about PSA. When I search youtube what i see seems pretty cool.Could some one post some links for PSA ------- I'd like to see the routine in full. My searches on youtube only seem to yield clips of part of the routines. Forgive my laziness for not persevering.

 KariM,

We have to bring in and pay a helper to come to our small club but we also have a fun and open club. I know there are some good ones around, so yes, your advice to the original poster is sound. Keep looking! I agree 100% about what is important as you note above.

Thanks for your replies.

KariM, sounds like you have a very nice club...whats it's name?  Lodi sounds like a great dog, good for his owners to keep him working.

I hate to tell you that you are likely wasting your time.

You might be right Hodie but I just can't keep my mouth shut, lol. 

Bancroft, here's the link to the PSA website.  To the left you can find the guidelines for each title www.psak9.org

I can't stand those "my sport is better and your sport sucks" people.  As a rule, those who are the most bitter and outspoken usually have an agenda (they couldn't cut it). 

The fact that people are out training and doing stuff with their dogs is what's important (well, as long as it's not dog fighting).

 From Sueincc:  "The fact that people are out training and doing stuff with their dogs is what's important (well, as long as it's not dog fighting)."

AMEN to this!

While I am an avid schutzhund enthusiast and now competitor, I think that any venue that develops a good dog in all areas is a good venue.  Fortunately I currently have two real dogs in the sport of schutzhund but I would also be highly interested in them doing PSA among other things. The fact a retired dog with joint problems can come out and compete and florish is fabulous and hats off to him as maybe that will be one of my dog's fate one day. Chip's radiographs are not perfect though he has had no trouble getting his schutzhund 3 and he has always qualified and usually wins high tracking.  Sure the schutzhund sport is to prove the breed and obviously this boy cannot carry on the good qualities he has, but he has succeeded and I would like to expand his horizons after the FHs.  Polo is a totally sound and serious dog who enjoys this sport now and just got his one. He has a long competition life ahead of him but if I can find a way to training for PSA in the future I will go for that with him too.  Melanie has the right idea I think and she should just go ahead with what she is doing and set the mark for a great GSD like Andy and do whatever he can succeed at.  The more things a good dog can be trained in the better!  Barb