MANUS V TIEKERHOOK PUPS FATHER DAUGHTER MATING ?. - Page 3

Who says inbreeding is not acceptable or ethical in the UK?  I know of at least one breeder there with another breed who has practiced inbreeding since the 70's. She's considered very ethical, registers her dogs and shows them at Crufts. Isn't it really a matter of personal preference and not a written rule or law? Incest is a word that is not even used in the animal world.

Close breeding such as father to daughter, mother to son etc have taken place all over the world and produced very exciting offspring with no health issues who have gone on to reproduce themselves with no issues.

However this line of action should only be taken by very experienced breeders who have the skils, knowledge, and experience in order to minimise the risks.

It is not to be contemplated by those who do not have extensive abilities in this area.

I am neither recommending nor criticising this particular mating however, as I have no interest in doing either; but merely stating the facts.

LOL Incestuous, there is no such thing in the animal kingdom. Your rational is the only thing I see deplorable. Animals are not human. Who are you, GOD? Humans are  the defenition of Barbaric, there wouldn't be such a description or word, without us. Go find a PETA site to cry on. I just don't understand why the GSD is the only breed that has so many weirdo's when it comes to breeding. Other breeds as Blitzen stated, do it all of the time and no one cry's fowl. Farmers do it and you eat it. There are bigger problems in the world to fuss over, than this breeding!

4 pack, all the protesting in this breed about that "incestual" practice of inbreeding just amazes me. Seems some tend to think if it as having a relationship with one's own sister.

It's common place in other breeds; somehow it has become taboo in this one. Ironic that many will happily use the dogs that are well known to produce epi, soft ears, bad hips and elbows, and a pile of other health issues but they won't even think about using a healthy dog known to produce healthy dogs unless there are no common ancestors in 5  generations. How does that improve the odds of getting healthy puppies?  That line of thinking is saddling the wrong end of the horse.

Congratulations Sujay, my only disappointment being that I missed what is perhaps a great opportunity!

I haven't learned much about my own boy's "uncle" Manus, but would love to share details in PM or email if you can find time.

I think the negative views to my breeding are understandable - I never thought I would ever do a breeding like this - but its taken over 11 years of searching and 2 years of mustering the courage. This is a calculated risk not a long shot.

The morality IS questionable - but im not really here to discuss that - its my choice and my responsibilty.

I am however worried about fertility issues and introducing recessive traits which may be impossible to remove - but having said that the close linebreeding from yoschy and nick has not caused problems in the first two generations so far and its bin done countless times - this is simply  a more extreme example.

I dont intend to come across as a biggot on my comments on Manus - its just that he is the closest i've experienced to the perfect Stud. Head. Bone. Power. Rock solid Nerve. Dominance. Social agression. Territorial. Genetic Grip - under pressure. Natural love for tracking. Calm, clean and quiet in the kennel/house - explosive at work - Switch on switch off - And he stamps his traits even on weak bitches. He is an amazing dog and although his character may be too much to win trophies he is definatley an ANIMAL you use to produce such - its early days but time will tell if he stamps his mark - He has definatley given me a goal. I honestly believe I have made a progressive move - If not I will be the first to admit it didnt work.

I am not here to be no1 - Im here to consistently produce the type of dog I strive for - the ultimate working dog - or try.

I still stand behind my decisions 100 percent.

You my friend are a dog breeder.

Sujay, are you the breeder of this litter? I've done several close breedings myself with another working breed and had some very good results. One resulted in 11 puppies with no need to considering culling any of them. In fact, 9 of the 11 cleared their hips xrays and all lived long healthy lives.  The other 2 were never xrayed.

I just don't see the problem here. These are dogs, not humans. why make a moral issue out of breeding a litter of dogs? Gawd!! Talk about overkill.

GARD wrote: "You my friend are a dog breeder."

I agree 100%. I at first I thought why would one do this but I took a look at myself and realized that I was humanizing it way to much and I appluad your efforts in striving to produce the best dog you can while having the guts to cull the ones that you thought had to be. Good for you and good luck on this litter!!!!!

it sounds to me like this guy knows his stuff and i wish him luck in his breeding program ...its just not my cupa tea

please let us know how they get on.

all the best