MANUS V TIEKERHOOK PUPS FATHER DAUGHTER MATING ?. - Page 1

I've just seen an advert in the puppy section in the U.K. ( yes I am looking for a new pup ).

The advert reads that the litter is from a  Father / Daughter mating !. Surely this is very irresponsible breeding in this way especially with these bloodlines !!!!!.

What do you all think ?.

Well the do state it is a controversial litter.

Personally I would never touch something that closely bred and to my mind its inbreeding not line breeding.

I totally agree, exactly what I said when I saw the ad, in-breeding not line breeding, too close!

BEEPY.   Yes I agree with you totally I wouldn't touch one either !, yes it is inbreeding and NOT line breeding.  Its a pity the Kennel Club even register them , they even register full Brother / Sister matings so there's no hope with them stopping it.

You need to know the subject very well before you purchase a puppy from here. half will be just like the father - good if you are looking for a future stud dog. Half could be a disaster.

But think a bit, if there was no inbreeding would there be a pure breed now. If both shows no hereditary problems or faults then its ok to breed them

I totally agree this is inbreeding - And it brings health issues and as well as FIXING the desired traits it fixes the undesired.

All were culled but two dogs and three bitches - 3 I have retained on terms only two are for sale. They all show the desired traits and no signs of ill health. They will be tested for all genetic defects at the correct ages before breeding.

The breeding was done to FIX the traits of Manus as I have never seen a dog of his strength, nerve, character and grip anywhere in the world. He is a one in a million and a truly amazing animal that took 11 years to locate - I cant wait 11 years to find another one.

He has bred over 15 bitches and produced countless healthy animals that are serving police dogs. His brothers and sisters in holland and America have done the same.

His father is from a renowned combination that produced producers his mother and her sisters have produced countless service and sport dogs her father is apillar of the breed. None of them consistently produce anything but the best with excellent health.

Obviously this generation will be totally outcrossed with a different line that shows the same traits when the time comes.

No one can say what I have done will guarantee success - but I know first hand the faults and merits of Manus and his bloodline - he has over 600 siblings and half siblings on the database to further study. I have taken along calculated risk and I am offering one dog and one bitch - Not to joe public but to those who share my vision and wish to take the risk in a responsible manner to achieve the Goal of the Ultimate working shepherd. Of course there will be very strong endorsements with the pups.

I hope my case is stated clear - I will be happy to answer further questions to make things clearer or have constructive debate. No one knows it all - its all about progression and sharing knowledge.

This is interesting, I know  a breeder of Malinois who has done this successfully several times. 

However a good friend of mine who breeds GSDs tried this about 20 years ago, and all of the puppies in the litter died by age 4 of various health issues.  Some did not show any issues until they were near 4 and then suddenly died.  This breeder said they will not take this chance again.

It seems that breeders who really know their lines have done this successfully.  But it definately seems to be a gamble.  Good luck Sujay in trying to better your line, I hope this works out better for you than it did my friends.

~Kari

SUJAY.    You think there is no other dogs in the world like Manus........... I beg to differ on that one as I'm sure many others will too !.

You say Manus and his relatives have always produced nothing but the best ?,  then you should not have needed to take such drastic measures to go as far as even CULLING PUPPIES !, apart from that undesirable action you cant possibly know that you are not culling the best ones !.  You should have easily been able to line breed to him to keep the traits you want with all the lines you say are out there by him .

You also say that you will have the remaining pups tested for ALL hereditary problems before breeding with them ...................... It is NOT possible to test for ALL hereditary problems !!!.

Surely a Grandparent to Grandson or Grandaughter would have proven adequate for your needs ?. That is as close as I would want to venture .

I

Right on Trueview , Right on ! 

And one hereditary problem he may or may not be able to test for is ....................................................clue, 3 letters beginning with J for Jackie.

AS