"Proven producer" - Page 1

What is a "proven producer" in your opinion?

To me, a Proven Producer would be a dog or bitch who has offspring that has proven themselves throu health clearances and Titles or Working (Police/SAR, etc) ability. I see it WAY too often meaning the dog has simply produced pups when bred (they all lived).

Tina

 Consistently produces excellence in their offspring, including but not limited to health, drives, conformation, good hips is also part of being healthy. Their progeny are also consistently titled and breed surveyed and/or working. 

I find the term "Proven Producer" to be tossed around so much as to be meaningless. All it says to me is that the bitch/dog is capable of producing offspring... but it means nothing insofar as the quality of the pups, their health, or how many of the litter survived. I find it more like one of those phrases less-than-reputable sellers use to lure in unsuspecting buyers. My question is always: "Proven producer of what?"

I will admit however, my views on the term differ in perception from males and females.

With females: I tend to be a bit leery of ads that emphasize the phrase "proven producer" because it makes me question: if the dog is so great, why is it being sold? I tend to find it synonymous with questionable ethics. Does she produce... then eat her pups? Can she produce milk? Does she lack motherly instincts and abandon her litter? Do they have to be hand-raised? It raises a lot of red flags in my mind when I see a female being advertised thusly.

With males: proven producer isn't such a red flag because once he's fathered the pups, he has less of a direct impact on them than the female. He doesn't need to nurse them, clean them, etc. His work's done.

I don't know how many of you remember Queequeg Von Paintedstar Stables. That female was advertised as a proven producer... but obviously the quality of her pups would be subject to debate.

 That's a good point, I think there is a big difference in an ad for a female for sale as a 'proven producer ' which could mean almost anything  vs.  pups out of a proven producer who is not for sale at any price.

A female who produces is worth her weight in gold.

 This is a good topic, why the lack of responses?

proven producer is a catch phrase used to sell dogs.  just like "excellent show puppy",   its a puppy.

dont get me wrong i have used the phrase also.  i guess you would have to take into context the way it was used, and what it means to the person using it.

to me you would look for consistancy in progeny when bred to different mates.    along with what others have stated, health, hips, tempernment, structure, conformation, etc.

john

When all breeders can get their head out of their asses.A proven producer can not only show but work in the areas for sport as well as real working.As well as being a guide dog//therapy dog..SAR etc....herding

"With females: I tend to be a bit leery of ads that emphasize the phrase "proven producer" because it makes me question: if the dog is so great, why is it being sold?"

jccarroll-  I think a lot of folks get leery and would question the same thing but I've also seen many breeders buy bitches for breeding and then selling them immediately after the litter has been whelped to make room for the next dog.  They don't even really know at that point if she produced well or not.  Sometimes it's a matter of finding the right match for the bitch in order to produce a nice litter.  Also not everyone's breeding goals are the same so what I may be looking for to hopefully produce may not necessarily be what you for instance are shooting for or want. 

Most people I think translate "proven producer" as just a dog that has successfully had live litters but to most of the people I talk to they interpret it to mean a dog that has had pups that went on to achieve some form of title or "job" as a police k9, SAR, ect. 

I do disagree though that the stud dog has less of a direct impact even though his "work" is done.  The genetics are there, he contributes just as much as the bitch so in essence IMO he's just as much as a direct impact as the Dam.  The only thing the Dam has to do once the pups are born is be a good mother, nurse them, clean them ect. and that's only for a short time before her work is "done" and then it's up to the breeder to do the right thing by them.  I'm a firm believer that the genetics of a dog plays a big part in who they will be and what they will be and that comes from both parents, grandparents ect.

Rainhaus- I agree, just because a dog is not involved in some sport venue does not mean he/she is not a proven producer.  It takes a special dog to be a damn good k9, sar, or personal protection dog.

Words such as "proven producer" "sure  show quality" etc... are selling words. A good bitch is never sold unless something devastating had happened, even when some does happen she is already spoken for so no need to advertise