Is this Normal for a Schutzhund Club - Page 1

 so I am at my club for abut three months now and I am really liking it (schutzhund)

but each session ends with my dog not being enough and others in the club already have dogs imported by the president of the sch. club and those dogs always do "great" although I seldom see much difference really between the way those dogs act and the way my responds 

and today I am told my dog (14 months of age) doesn't have it so there just happens to be a few good dogs on the market (for tons and tons of money) and my dog is out of sch 3 titled dogs on both sides from a pretty respected breeder but even though they are working lines maybe it is my pup that doesn't have it so why wast more time.....

and I thought of asking some of the well-known names in the region for a second opinion but am told that is a wast of time and ridiculous

i smell a rat

has this happened to anyone

please pm me

Get other opinions

Have not spent alot of time around Sch clubs but I here it is quite common. On the flip side I have seen trainers who give dogs more credit than they deserve and handlers flase hope. It goes both ways.

There is the possibility your dog does not have it. Go to some other clubs and or/seminars for alternate oprinions. Don't just go to Sch clubs; check out other sport venues as well.

If you keep your eyes and your mind open, you will see the difference in the quality of dogs with more exposure.

I would not say your situation is normal, but not unheard of.  14 month old dog is still young, some dogs mature slowly.  Since you are new to the sport I would stick with this dog longer.  There is still tracking and obedience that must be learned.  Make all of your mistakes on this dog.  Its easy to train a dog that is naturally gifted with all the right stuff.  Training dogs that are lacking in one area or another will make you a better trainer.  Some trainers are cookie cutter and only have one playbook.  If a dog does not fit into this program they call the dog crap.  Real trainers have the ability to use different methods to get success.  If you are up for it video your dog working and post it.  Don't tell the club the reason why you are taping your dog.  Just for your peronal archives and edification. 

If you were with the club for a year or so and the dog was around 2.5years, then I would have more confidence in your TD's opinion of your dog.  Especially with the caviat that there are some good ones on the market that I can for you.

My two cents,

Kyle

I would not say this is normal, at least I would hope this is not "normal" 

Our club has a few dogs that are just there out of hard work that the owner has put in.  We have one dog we call the jackolima, he's a mix breed lab something or another, and he really does not have what it takes for the bite work, although yesterday after 3 years he actually stayed on the sleave after the stick hit!  Our guy has known from the beginning that the dog probably wasn't going to do too well, but he's dedicated and works hard!  He has an OB1 and a TR1 on the dog!

We do not turn people away from the sport.  NOW we have had a couple of people come out with very nervous dogs and unstable dogs, and we have told them, we will not work protection with their dog, but they are welcome to stay and train OB, most of them leave.  Maybe your dog is showing some tendencies that are unsafe to train in  bite work for liability reasons later?

Just because a dog's parents are SchH3 on both sides does not mean that your dog will be SchH quality.  Regardless, he should be a great companion and you should never feel that your dog is crap, and if a club is making you feel that way, I would leave just because of that. 

Learn with this dog is a great idea, and there is a lot to learn for sure.  Try to find another trainer just for evaluation purposes if you are set on doing SchH with this dog, but don't let anyone call your dog crap!  ~Kari

Sounds a lot like most of the clubs I have been to. 

 Pat,

It is, of course, difficult for anyone not seeing your dog to begin to evaluate it and know whether your dog can or cannot do the work in total. Too often, in my opinion and experience, people and dogs are judged way too early, sometimes on the first or second visit. That is unfortunate because yes, as stated above, dogs are different and mature differently. As well, their experiences to date in life can make a huge difference initially and if one is not careful one will discount a dog when, in fact, it can do all the work. If ALL you learn and all the dog does is a BH, that is something!!

In my experience, what you say happened to you is not uncommon, but fortunately, there are other clubs and options most of the time. In my club, we would NEVER turn anyone away because if all you do is learn and get a BH, or do tracking, for instance, you have learned. Part of learning is making mistakes and yes, as Kyle says above, you make those mistakes on your first dog, and sometimes dogs after that. In fact, everyone, even those of us with multiple dogs they have worked and titled or trained, make mistakes, even when we should know better.

I assume you put in your time and effort to be a member of the club. I also assume that there are no personality issues between you and others. That being said, if a group basically tells you they don't think you or the dog can do it, something is wrong. Maybe they are not the right group.

If you want to, PM me sometime, and I will tell you how difficult a time I had getting started. i had no experience in the sport and had a show line that was half American bloodlines. One club would not give me the time of day, others told me that neither I nor the dog could do it, even without so much as a trial of some sort or testing the dog. Since then I have titled two dogs, from nothing to SchH2 (including the first dog who started at 2.5 years old) and another to SchH3, have two SchHAs, and have about 8 or 9 BHs. I have several dogs in the cooker now whom I hope to title this fall.

So, if you enjoy the sport and want to do something with your dog, visit some other clubs. Consider other options. Don't give up. Good luck.

Different clubs have different standards.  One club near me will not take you if you or your dog is not capable of competing at a higher than club level.  Another one I know let people know up front if their dog is not capable of titling (even if it has proper temperament) they will not waste their time and helper wear and tear on the dog just for fun.  There are many others  that are okay with just hobbiests.  I'd suggest you check around, if your club is not willing to keep you in the sport with the dog YOU choose to work because he's not hard or strong enough than look elsewhere.

But you must always have and open mind and realistic expectations.  Hard work can take you and your dog farther than expected but keep your expectations real...understand your dogs weak and strong points and don't be afraid to ask the helper why if you dont' understand what they're saying or why.  So if you want to work him than do just that.  This is your first sport dog so learn all you can, it will make you a better handler which will benefit your future dogs.

A friend of mine started the sport with a dog from untitled parents and mediocre pedigree.  He was very interested in the sport and wanted to work his dog.  I'm sure he got an education in realistic expectations along the way but 3 years later his dog is SchH1 and very close to SchH2.  He's not the strongest or hardest dog but his handlers hard work and a great trainer built him higher than you'd expect from his pedigree.

Starting the sport it is difficult to read what the trainer/helper is seeing if they don't explain it to you.  I try to share and explain all I can to Renofan at training, there are alot of things that are hard for a new person to see.  There may be very subtle changes in behavior (good and bad) that can be missed if you're don't have the experience to read them.   So what may look like the same to you when comparing your dog and the other's, might not, because you don't have enough experience to see it.

You will not know about your dog for sure unless you get an unbiased opinion...so if you are not sure about the trainers motives look elsewhere for an evaluation.  If you your dog IS just a club/ hobby/ "just in it for fun" dog and you are okay with that, let them know you still want to work and learn with him and are not interested in another dog at this time.

It is possible the trainer is trying to be helpful...those who love the sport try to help people experience success and if that means a different dog perhaps he's just trying to be honest with you.