Grim PS & Pluto PS Linebreeding? - Page 1

I have heard that linebreeding on Grim or Pluto is bad b/c they produce bad hips....

What say you breeders that linebreed on them??

I wouldn't linebreed Grim.  I would study progeny and find out what works well with grim. 

I wouldn't linebreed Pluto either.  Why not linebreed on his father Chuligan instead? 

I would take a chance on a dog linebreed on Grim but that is just me.

The folks that owned Orry IT used Orry in quite a few breedings that caused the pups to be line bred on Grim with pretty good results. You can see some of the progeny here http://www.grimzps.com/ . The link is from the breeder that use to own Orry IT until Van Den Heuvel K9 here in the States bought him.

Have never research Pluto enough to give an opinion on him.

Mike's new competition dog Arci (Orry's son) is line bred on Grim as well and he is a h*** of dog too. It's fun to watch him work.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/473094.html

I own a daughter, named Xena, to Mike's new dog Arci...I just xrayed her hips and elbows on Monday for OFA...the vet said that they looked great. I am just waiting for the final results...Xena is line bred on Grim..here is her pedigree....she is a really nice working female too...I am going to be titling her in SchH. I would like to take her to the Nationals someday.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/475396.html

Yeah I've "heard" that linebreeding on Grim produced bad hips, but if you dig around to try and verify that... good luck getting enough data to make that conclusion! 

Grim has over 100 progeny on this database listed as line-bred on him.  Only a portion of those have hip ratings, and by different means:  OFA, a-stamp, FCI.  If I recall correctly, only one or two is listed as being dysplastic.  I made up a spreadsheet to try to test for statistical significance, but there were way too much data missing to make a calculation.

Furthermore, considering that anyone can get on this site and post any kind of data about any dog, you would have to go to the original source of the hip ratings to verify the entries are correct. 

Unfortunately, that does leave the oh-so convenient explanation... "but the bad hip Xrays don't get sent in."  So now what?  Who's unverified claims are more believeable?  Guess work!

If I were in your shoes, I'd worry more about the individual dogs considered for the breeding pair, and less about the claims of line-breeding woes.  If someone has many more actual hip ratings than the dogs listed here, then bring forth the data and we could have an intelligent discussion on the matter.

I know nothing about Pluto as I never researched his progeny.

Yvette

here we go with Grim and hip production fear.and that is all i would say about this for now.but this is a sad day for me to hear that Orry is in the states another good dog you will no longer know how he is going to produce and what people are doing with his offsprings like many others before him.very sad.

I had an accidental breeding of my dogs that are both grand kids of Grim.. The male being a direct Dargo Hajada son and the female a direct Marko bl Zamku daughter.

Bad hips, some with floppy ears, one with long coat.

I've seen enough strong evidence to warrant avoiding particular combinations, but there are certainly exceptions.  If I get that daughter of Orry I've been planning on, I'll make sure you're updated.  I've been holding off for now, because of an Orry grandaughter I'm currently raising.  For added precaution, you might breed with Grim on only one side, sire's or dam's.  What I've heard of Pluto, is only rumors from Jinopo's competition.