GSDs more apt to forge then Mals? - Page 1

I was watching someone work their young Mal pup over the weekend and it occurred to me how perfectly "correct" the dog was in heeling position.  I'm not just referring to focus (that was there as well) but position relative to the handlers leg and not forging.  It occurred to me that virtually every mal I've seen in the last 12 months has been pretty close to similar (correct), versus virtually EVERY GSD I've seen in the same time, all of whom forge to some extent or another – MANY way too much.

I'm now wondering if GSDs are genetically predisposed to forging?  Possibly due to body mechanics?  Having a longer body then a Mal, maybe it is easier to do so, so also easier to become a habit?  Body mechanics are the only thing I can think of that is noticeably different about the 2 breeds – it’s for certain the GSDs are not in “more drive” then the mals.

It's interesting to me, I consider myself "out and about" a lot in my area and it is uncanny how many non forging mals I've seen recently and how everyone with a GSD is struggling with the issue.

Thoughts?

-Calvin

Malinois trainers must be better!

If a dog understands the correct basic position he doesn't forge.  Dogs forge because they are looking for  ball/tug/food.  If you train so that the dog learns he is rewarded for the correct position, and the correct position only, he won't forge.

 Calvin,

Sueincc says it all. You should see some of the dogs we have here. They are correct because they are taught to be correct. It does help to have a dog who is genetically predisposed to be able to learn to focus on the handler or what ever is needed, but both Mals and GSDs can do that. And both can be incorrect or crazy or forge or whatever other problem one wants to see.

regards!

 Handler's height, belly and *ahem* chest proportions, etc. can all have a significant effect on what is possible for the dog to do as far as eye contact and positioning.  I had one friend whose bitch had awesome focus, but as my friend got pregnant her dog had to start forging just to keep an eye on her.

I think Malinois also have a longer, more flexible neck--they will sometimes heel with their heads straight up.  Or maybe mali handlers are just skinnier from trying to keep up with their dogs! :P

The Mali trainers may indeed be on to something.  For instance has anyone seen that cool looking  new about turn some are doing where the dog turns in front of the handler?   Mark does it with  Joker and it's really something to see, but if it's done wrong I hear it's really ugly!

I think Sueincc is correct - it is just a matter of proper training.  While one example is not necessarily "definitive", here are a couple shots of Ivan and his GSD heeling at AWDF:

http://tinyurl.com/44bapa

http://tinyurl.com/3z3n4d

I am having the exact opposite problem. My little girl is lagging. Ob was much easier with my Mal. Piston is smart and picks things up fairly quick. There just is not the speed, willingness and flash of my Mal. Sharpness and correct position is harder with her.

I have never had a lagger. Ever. Piston is alot more headstrong and does things more for herself than for me. Which is wierd because you would think I would have more problems with forging, crowding, or being wide, not lagging. I have a pretty good idea where the problem has stemmed from (part dog/part me).

The biggest thing I have found different is she is more headstrong, and takes things personal. My Mal would hit the deck if I looked at her cross eyed but shook it off immediatley. Piston actually gets mad at me and holds a bit of a grudge. this combined With her injury and me moving I have not spent enough consistant time training either.  our relationship is not as strong yet.

We are still a work in progress.

How can I put it.............Mals sometimes seem more pliable/moldable,sometimes  handler sensitive, and willing to please their handler  than other breeds that I've seen and been around. However this is just a generalization but maybe that is why you always see them in the correct position.