question for breeders who title their dogs - Page 1

As a breeder who titles your dogs, or at least has someone else title them before breeding, does it annoy you when you see people breeding dogs that have not proven themselves? Or have you just learned to ignore it?

air,

 what do you consider ''proving yourself''. if you title your own dog's that's 1 thing. but anyone can pay to have a dog titled or even buy a titled dog! said it before and i'll say it again. just because their titled doesn't mean they whould be bred either!

now if you title, korung, ofa/a stamp then great for you. do you also talk to these 'unproven breeders about why? if not well then don't come here and throw a fit about it! because your just as much at fault for their ignorance!

i'm sick of reading about titled vs non titled, show vs. working.

let's talk about training, pedigrees, what dogs are PRODUCING!

kenny

Kenny,

 i think air meant " the dog proving itself before being used for breeding. Not the trainer.

Kenny..thanks for that. I agree. :) At least on the part about just because they are titled or not, doesn't always go to say how worthy they are of breeding. I myself, have both. It's all on the individual animal.

I was always of the opinion that the 'titles' were some kind of assurance that the dog has been tested in some specific areas to show that they have the characteristics that the breed are supposed to have in themselves.  The standard itself is based on theory.  The theory that if the dog fits these physical characteristics then they will be suitable for the task for which they were being bred.

In the AKC show ring this is all theory and if the dogs are not tested to prove this theory then at some point the dogs may lose the ability to do any kind of work at all.

It is easier to have a physical standard, such as 7' tall basketball players will do better in a game than 5' players.  If the 7' players have no desire, no trainability, no tractability, can not get along with one another, can not take corrections, and cannot follow the rules of the game, then the 5' players will win every time.

The reason that the Schutzhund tasks were developed in the first place was to test which dogs had the characteristics that made them suitable for breeding.  I believe that the form of the German Shepherd developed out of that practical function, not the other way around.

Does this make sense at all.  I am not a breeder and not usually one to make comments so I will shut up now.

Bruce

I won,t comment on the AKC show ring thing.

 At one time Schutzhund was what it was designed for a breed worthness test,  what it has turned into for the most part is a sport and less of a test after goverments swaying to the demands of the few and local and our own administration of the test it has become a watered down version of what it was supposed to be... That is why i have always advicated a program like S.PT 1.2.3 (sport titles) and a real breed worthiness test for Schutzhund. 

I would certainly be one to support something like that.  I feel like we need a more specific testing format for worthiness in breeding.  I feel that is what every breeder should be doing.  Do you think breeders are afraid to test their breeding theories?

Bruce

I have titled several dogs from my own program, taken them to National level and multiple time Schh3, as well as delving into "other rhelms" such as agility, AKC obedience, narcotics, cadaver and explosives detection, therapy dog work, wilderness and disaster SAR training.    For me it is "what it's all about" - bringing a puppy from my own-bred litter up from the start, training, titling and achieving whatever the dog and myself are capable of.  For me getting the titles and achievements on the dog I bred and raised is very rewarding.  

As for the question "does it annoy you when you see people breeding dogs that have not proven themselves?" - not really - to each their own, what is good for me doesn't mean it's right for everyone else.  I am proud that I achieve titles etc with my own dogs, someone else can be just as proud achieving titles etc with a dog they raised from a pup but didn't breed - and someone else may be just as proud of their dog that isn't titled but is the very best companion and best friend to them.    It's all an individual decision we can all make for our own dogs and breeding programs.

molly

It should never bother anyone what anyone else does with their dogs and that is a whole subject in its self. Most of my dogs are titled and dogs kept here are being titled now. The title iself is a test for breedworthy I agree but have two females here not titled as good as any sch3 in the work and temperament I have owned. As long as you are not kennel blind when breeding and try and mask faults you should be fine. Many of my dogs do Police/drug work/agility/ other forms of work besides schutzhund. They thing people/kennels/breeders need to do is leave others alone. If I am not breeding what you think is perfect dont buy here. Too many kennels take it apon themselves to be breed wardens self proclaimed. LOL   Marlene

I believe it may in fact be better to conduct an evaluation of a dog prior to entering formal training.  The results are then less blurred by the differing training techniques, or the proficiency level of the handler.