"EPI" test results--the wait, etc - Page 1

just curious---how long did//does it take to get back your "EPI" results---i had my new girl's blood work sent in last WED 3/26/08  & vet said not in yet

i go tomorrow 4/2/08 to get some tylan powder---still on metrodazole--took off prednisone d/t increse thirst---diarrheea again

took her off yogurt too ---dog is eating BLUE BUFFALO chicken & brown rice holistic kibble---eating 9-12c kibble //day plus canned etc----& still "starving" for food!!!!---finally got 6 lbs on her   from 56 to 62 now

also---do they EVER STOP eating their P--P  after enzyme replacement???

this is frustrating , esp   since ive only had her about 1 1/2 months now  ---

My results only took several days to come back.

I used tylan for over a year on a daily basis, not metrodazole (except in the very beginning), and never used prednizone.  I did and still do use probiotics.

It took many months of trial and error to get firm poop, it took different foods, and different amounts of enzymes to achieve this.

My boy ate p--p heavily at first, his own and my other dogs also, then off and on for almost a year.  Frustrating to say the least.

Now he's been on enzymes for 2 years or so.  No more poop eating. He is also off the tylan. His poop is firm again.

Every dog is different, some never achieve perfect stools. 

Change one thing at a time, and keep records.  It took 9 kinds of foods to find 2 that work for my dog.

B12 shots are also needed by many epi dogs.

One more thought, if she is still starving for food, then the enzymes are probably not sufficient.  Perhaps up the amount slightly.  Many also add prozyme to help extract all the food's nutrients.

Offer smaller meals more often for awhile.  I did 3 a day at first, now down to two feedings a day.

Also soak well (I do half an hour) to help avoid mouth and lip soars, which the enzymes cause.

They also have to be porcine (not vegg based) enzymes for a dog with EPI.

This yahoo group for EPI dogs was invaluable to me when I started.  Check into it.

pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/k9-EPIGLOBAL/

Hope my link works

oh....& she had also got an antibiotic & centrine (antispasmodic) shot 3/26/08 too......she is 20 mos old......she is fed 3x/day

MACAW----THANX---

interesting you said enzymes are to be PORCINE based----SHE came to me with bag of DOG FOOD that was PORCINE BASED!!!!!!   vet & i couldn't figure out why she was on that  (PRIDE 24/20 Endurance Plus----www.thepridedogfood.com)----

do you think it was KNOWN  or SUSPECTED the dog may have a problem before sold to me???

ANYONE--heard of a dog being on a PORCINE dry kibble????

WHAT is PROBIOTICS?

WHAT iS PROENZYMES??

HOW do you SCOOP up these soft mushy P--P's????  it sticks on my shovel,   to the grass & she eats it off there too!!!!!!  I have tried throwing cat litter on them to "clump" but is not working!!!!   

I am getting an idea that this EPI is costly???? with ezymes, b-12 shots tylan powder, med's, probiotics proenzymes  etc?????     IF this is SO,   then i will have to see if seller will take dog back unfortunately as i cannot afford this, in addition to what i paid for her (over $$$$k) & vet bills thus far etc---this is frustrating & upsetting  & i am sad--esp since this will be my last GSD!!!!   & i worry about the future of this dog also...does anyone think placement with a GSD RESCUE may increase her chance of a home d/t her special needs???  if it is EPI???   instead of going back???   i probably will loose all my $$, so i'd rather try to find the best way to place her....

Lucy, I don't know where your at, but I am in the US, and the link I gave to you, can get you enzymes at a reduced rate (vets are very expensive).  I pay 130.00 for 1 kilo.  this lasts me about 3 months.  My boy does not need the b12, each dog is different.  I also do not do the prozyme now, but did use it in the beginning.

Prozyme is a plant based enyme that helps to extract all nutrients that go through the digestive system.

Probiotics replace the good bacteri that is lost when using antibiotics.  This I still use.

I have never even heard of a porcine based kibble.......

My boy now eats 5 to 6 cups of kibble a day.  When first diagnosed (about 16 months), he was eating 3 times this amount, loosing weight, and starving.  He looked like a skeleton.

My boy's EPI came on very quickly.  Fine one month, 2 months later starving.  I does come on between 1 and 3 years from what I know, at least in most cases.

I have no medical training, and everything I have said is just learned through this dog I have.  There are folk on this board who can really help you much more.  I'm sure they'll help you soon.

The beginning costs, along with the time and costs of the vets to diagnose my boy was very high.  Now that I have learned how to keep him healthy,  the costs are managable.

Lucy,

My 5yr old male was diagnosed at 9 mo old with EPI.  He stablized fairly quickly after we found out what the problem was and started treatment but I think every EPI dog has a set back  now and then. I use the enzyme powder, Biokase-V,  which is a generic of Viokase-V, only at about half the cost. I order the 12 oz powder through Thomas Laboratories. You can get 4  -  12 oz  powder jars for approx $165. Ordering over the internet will also save you another $34 which drops the cost to about $128. One jar lasts me about 3 weeks (but dosage amounts differ per dog).

I don't have to take him to the vet anymore except for his annual check up and routine shots so the vet bills have dropped. I do stop by every month just for a "weigh in" to make sure his weight is stable.

The only time he ate his p--p was in the very beginning before we found out it was EPI. Once we stablized him with the enzmyes he quit gulping his food and quit eating his poo.

I don't know of any rescue group that will take a EPI dog and can almost guarantee you that the breeder will unfortunately just put the pup down and take a tax write off.  It couldn't hurt to ask the breeder to refund a portion of the purchase price to help offsetthe vet/medicine costs. 

One thing I learned is EPI is not a kiss of death and they can live relatively normal lives so if you can swing the cost your GSD will still be able to give you years of love and affection.

Good luck!

ok--------lab results in 4/3/08********8 Hr fast ----AS I COULDN'T COME IN  NEXT MORNING FOR TESTING*********

folates---ok

B12---227 (range is 250--900)

TLI--9.4  (range is 5.7--45.2)

2nd stools again negative for paracites//worms--but was treated with Pancure after 1st negative stool as was still having diarrhea///starving

awaiting acceptance into EPI group

ordered & awaiting Pancreten 6x enzymes from EPI group

original treatment from Dr. B  3/26/08---centrine shot (anitspasmodic), antibiotic shot, prednisone, flagyl 2x/day----stools seem to get firmer but then soft//loose//diarrhea again & seemed to be drinking alot o water----took off prednisone then...

4/3/08--started tylan powder 1/2 tsp each meal (3x//day)--stools again looking better THEN loose again---female vet Dr. G called later with ABOVE LAB RESULTS & treatment as follows  for  SIBO?///EPI///low B12

1)  put on low fat//fiber kibble---i am changing over gradually to Dick Van Pattens Seet potato & venison----was lowest i could find @ Petsupplies Plus

2) flagyl for SIBO  2x/day

3) Tylan powder 1/2 tsp each meal (3x//day)----for SIBO BUT also to stop diarrhea///bulk stool

4)  4/4/08 started the prescribed THORNE basic nutrients brand vitamins--2 capsules once a day for under 75 libs--got  from Vet for  low B12---bottle says the B12  is 10mcg///capsule

5)--ENZYME replacement for low TLI---gave her Pancreatin link

wanted 3 tsp--2x//day if order 6x strength   ***OR***  1 1/2 tsp 2x/day IF order 8x strength

****i ordered the 6x strength on 4/4/08

6)  finish flagyl BUT  STOP  tylan powder when start ENZYMES

ALSO---dog seems to still be drinking slot of water  & noticed was eating alot of snow like she just couldn't stop---vet didn't think needes to be tested for DIABETES

*****vet also made aware (when talked today 4/5/08---that dog was kept on farm with other dogs//cats//horses//pheasants//roosters  etc  & felt MAYBE dog picked up something to cause? or contribute to the SIBO***

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS TREATMENT OR ESP---THE ENZYMES DOSES

If your vet sends the blood directly to the Texas lab that we do, it's generally less than a week.  If they go through their regular lab, ie: Idexx or Antech it will take longer, since they in turn usually send to Texas. 

see my post 4/5/08---time 15:04

anyone to comment?

How about B12 injections?