male female heat cycle separation - Page 1

My questions here are driven mainly by the fact that I've never owned a female GSD (or any breed for that matter).  I have a 5 1/2 month old solid black female and a 2 1/2 yearl old showline male. Do not want to breed them (ever) and don't want to neuter him or spay her.  The questions are (dumb as they may be):

Is there a typical age that an all black GSD from working lines would come into season?

How can I tell when she's coming into cycle for first time?

At what point do they need to be separated?  (I live in a traditional home with a backyard.)

How long should they be apart?

How far apart do they need to be from each other?  Do I need to move one completely out of house?

As always, thank you all.

Is there a typical age that an all black GSD from working lines would come into season?  I don't think it makes a difference what lines they are from and all females are different.  They can start coming in anywhere from 9 months-18 months of age.

How can I tell when she's coming into cycle for first time?  You may notice her licking her privates more than usual.  At first you will see bright red blood.  It may or not be heavy.  It will start to darken and then turn a yellowish color.  Typically a female is ready to breed 10-13 days after first seeing sign of blood.  I've had them tie as early as day 7 and as late as day 22.

Your bitch will more than likely tell your male to back off until she's ready to breed but don't count on that as a deterrent.  I have a female that just came in yesterday and right now my male is ignoring her but he knows she'll kick his butt all over the place.  He's old and wise.   I would start keeping them separate as soon as you notice discharge and you should do so for 3-4 weeks or until he's not showing interest at all.

They can and will, breed through crates and chainlink fence.  I would put the crates in different rooms unless you want to sit there 24/7.  Even letting them out together for 1 minute when she's fertile can result in a tie and a litter. 

Yeah, the quietest method is to long term board one of them if you can afford it.  I just invest in ear plugs.

No expert here, but :

1) No typical age for a black working line dog. You can try asking the breeder what age her mum was when she had her first heat. Your male should let you know also. And her vulva should swell also. Pay attention to your dogs and it's harder to miss it.

2) That I do not know because that first heat maybe funny. Usually you see a bloody discharge for about a week or more and then a clear discharge for about 7 days. Blood is the indicator, clear fluid is showing when she is receptive.

3) Again, she probably can't get pregnant until the discharge does clear, but do not take chances. I would say male outside and female inside because if the girl is outside on ehr own there is a good chance other male dogs will come to jump her. Take her out on leash and with constant supervision, especially when you no longer see blood.

4) With my girl I supervise her outside time after about 3 days of bleeding until she is back to normal. i.e. no more swelling of the vulva, and no more discharge.

5) I would say no contact, and no lox fencing, or no fencing at all. Just make sure they have no access to each other. putting them in seperate rooms is also a good idea.

Just some advice. 1) mark the important dates i.e. when you noticed swelling, first blood spot, blood stops flowing, clear discharge seen, and heat cycle is finnished. This will help you witht he other heats. Also not attitude changes, like clingyness or agression to strangers or even friends. Last you should look for physical changes like a shedding or a rash or anything different from the norm. even dulling of the coat. All these things will help you in the future when dealing with heat cycles and breedings. I can tell if my girl is commming into heat maybe a month before it happens because she sheds and then has red bumps on her stomach. That triggers me to take her to the beach a lot and whatever else needs to be done.

Falcon12,

Your female can come into heat as early as 9 months and as late as 13 months, I would say the
average is 11 months for a first heat.

At the first sign of heat, that would be say maybe a drop of blood on the floor, mark it on the calender
and in about 5 days from then lock away your female in her crate, and only take her out if you are going
to be with her in the yard, at all times, and without the male dog around.

The male dog should also be in his crate, preferably in a different room.

This will go on for about 3 weeks, be very careful and watch her closely when her heat cycle reaches the 9th day all
the way to the 16th day, that is the (BIG DANGER ZONE.)

Good Luck, cause you'll need it, might need to invest in a bark collar for your boy

i wish you the best of luck.  some males remain gentlemen and will simply lie in their crate or kennel and whimper.  others are full blown idiots.  they will destroy crates, chew through doors,  climb kennels, howl and pace for days and days - not eating any food.  if you are certain that you don't want to spay the female and will not ever breed to the male, then i would suggest you have a good friend or relative take the male during her hotest week.  maybe there is a boarding kennel nearby?  after a few heats you may be ready to do the spay. 

pjp

My thanks to all....sounds like loads of fun.

I dont think its typical but 6 months is possible,   She will become very playful with the male and he will perk up and try to mount as the time nears.  Blood is the visible indicator as well as swelling.  I watch for the change in playfulness and how they play as an early warning.

I separate mine using a kennel out of doors to avoid the mess.  I would say the last time ran about three weeks but I wasnt watching the calender.  You will notice if they are let together under supervision that she will no longer be as playful and will tell him no in so many words.     Counting days and watching the calender is probably best but I have found that no two dogs are alike and there is some variation in these days.       I just watch mine close and you will get a feel for it, plus they will let you know in attitude and activity.  Just always be there during these days and supervise.

When its over the first thing I do is bath the female to get rid of scent .    

You can also find breeding info on several websites so look into it.   Or ask your vet.   But pay attention and dont only count days.

I have blacks and I think they are striking, ever loose one at night?  

good luck.

It's not as difficult as it seems. I have 2, adult, titled studs (never together due to "sibling rivalry")--loaded with libido. I have my yard divided into several, non-connecting sections--one not visible from the other.

Even when we have "visiting" bitches, I have no problems. The bitch stays in one, larged, fenced (6' redwood) side yard (with shelter) during the day. During the evening, she is crated in the garage (sometimes in a crate in my van which is in the garage). When I am running errands, the girls enjoy taking a ride in the van.

The main consideration is not to let the bitch urinate anywhere near where the males relieve themselves. If you are not breeding the bitch, you may reduce her scent by giving her chlorophyll tablets.

With this set-up, my boys are reasonably sane/quite and don't go off their food. I would never consider kenneling them. I figure, if I regularly manage to keep the boys separated (and where one cannot see the other), having a bitch is no problem.