Retraining Tracking - Page 1

I know there are some advid trackers on this board.

Has anyone ever retrained a dog that had a bad tracking start?

If so, do you go back to 0?  Scent pads?  Would a dog that has done some tracking (though badly) be able to backtrack to scent pad work?  Or is there a better way to reestablish good tracking skills?  This dog is a gung-ho puller.  From the get go he would not settle to do a thorough footstep track, or I did not have the knowledge to produce it.   I allowed him to continue, and now am having many problems.  How can I restart him?

Thanks for any help.

Becky

I have!

It was challenging to say the least.  My dog was started with SchH tracking but stopped early and began training in airscenting/apprehension  when he was sold to police. 

When I got him at 5 years old he was waay too fast and sloppy on his turns.  His nose was deep but he would lift it in tall grass.  Oh and he can't stand hot dogs...It took me a while to figure that out, I was wondering why he'd blow by all the food on the track??, lol.

So I found something he LOVED for bait, canned chicken.  When I eventually made progress it was when I started tracking him with food in every footstep, mainly to SLOW him down so he woudln't overshoot the corners so bad...I didn't let him skip food and would stay close on the leash and stop and point out any food he'd try to skip. A couple months of this and he was touching his nose to each footstep, slightly swaying side to side...being much more careful than before...tail down and more concentrated.

He's  still rather inconsistent, so it's always something to keep up with.  But we managed to get some good scores in there, highest were his 94pt. SchH2 and 87pt. SchH3 track...not super fantastic but I feel was a great accomplishment from where we started.
 

Thanks GSDfan.  My boy also flies over bait.  He'll  pick up one now and then, but pass over the majority.  He also casts side to side widely.  I will try your idea of a tastier bait.  He is also hard to slow down because of his pulling like a maniac.  It's like he is in a race to get to the end.  I will also try baiting each step.  I do not use a pinch while tracking.  Would one help now to keep him slowed, or would it do more harm than good?

     I would suggest using a prong collar if the dog is used to a prong.  Have the prong set low on the neck and the leash coming from the lower right side of the dogs neck so that when you do give corrections that you are not pulling the dogs head up.  Also when giving corrections drop your hand as low to the groud as possible so you are not pulling up at all.  If he tends to cast side to side a lot I would shorten up your distance to the dog, try to stay right next to him, keep him slow and if he goes off track use your hand to redirect him back onto the track.  Every time his head comes up stop him from moving forward, get in front of him and redirect his nose to the track.

     Another thing that I would suggest is downing the dog every so often during the track.  If you are baiting every step and the dog is doing well then let him go a little longer between downs, if he is losing focus or going too fast then I would down every 5 pieces of bait or so.  Let him get to the bait and as he goes to eat, calmly "platz" him.  Let him lay there and settle.  If he is anxious just let him relax, stroke him in a calming manner.  Once he is calm direct him to begin tracking again, let him go another five steps and repeat the process.  This should help teach him to calm down and go slower and to understand that it isn't necessary to go fast.  As the dog starts to make progress and go slower you would slowly allow the dog to go more foot steps with out being downed.  This also can help to build up their endurance for the amount of time they are able to breathe through their nose, especially when it is hot.  Also, something that I have done is that when ever I come to a piece of bait, whether it be on every footstep or every 50 footsteps, just before they get to the bait I give a very light correction and repeat "track".  What this typically accomplishes is teaching the dogs not to be adverse to the corrections on the track but to actually interpret the corrections as somewhat of a positive, everytime there is a light correction they associate that with a piece of bait so in time the correction will make the dog focus more and search harder to stay on track.  These are just suggestions.  They may or may not work for you.  I also agree with trying some more enticing bait.  Good luck!

wow, that was all really helpful to me too.  My dog also flies through the track going over hot dogs etc.  I will try some of these ideas to slow him down and get focused.

I ended up going a similiar route as Melanie with my boy in his tracking and it did greatly improve.  Even pondering an FH if I could get tracking more.  His scores went from 70 for the 1, 76 for the 2, and 88 for the 3, so I was thrilled with the results from where we started. 

Viperk9, thanks very much for the suggestions.  They do make sense.  Yes, he is used to a prong.  Maybe there is hope yet.  I am getting so frustrated.  At first I thought we were making good progress, but I did, what I imagine many beginners do, I let my and his enthusiam push us to fast.  We missed getting a good foundation. 

Your statement on building the length for breathing made a click for me.  I did wander why after a time his breathing changed, and why he'd raise his head, snort and shake it like bothered by the grass.  Now I think I know why.

Thanks for the help.

Becky

Melanie

That was/is probably hard to change a k9 to a Sch track.

O.P.

You can always go back to square one.  Think of mathematics.  If you got to algebra and were horrible, do you think you would not be able to go back to addition? 

You can try the prong and new, tasty food.  Other things to consider are whether the dog is having to work on the track.  First, make sure you have a good motivator.  If he doesn't like the food/bait your are currently on, he will not work for it.  Challenge the dog.  If a dog is to a certain point, he may not be challenged with long straight legs of a track.  Do a few serpentine tracks.  Add more corners to your tracks.  Make the dog work.  Take him to multiple surfaces.  Tracking on the same easy terrain doesn't challenge a dog either.  I'm not saying that you have to make it impossible, but interesting.  If and when you go to the tougher terrains, don't walk through the tracks like twinkle toes.  Make sure you are disturbing the ground.  Tougher terrain=more ground disturbance and easier terrain=less ground disturbance.

The reason you need to go back in training, is because he was never trained in the first place.  So essentially you are not going back, but just starting.  The reason we go back is because the dog did not pick up what we were teaching.  Your dog doesn't understand what you want.  You need to go back and explain tracking to the dog.

If this doesn't work, put an e-collar on his neck and one on his mid-section.  This should keep him on the track and slow him a bit!  Just kidding, please don't try this at home!  I am an untrained professional.

Thanks Don Corleone, I do think you've hit the nail on the head with he never learned what I wanted in the beginning.  He likes to track, just doesn't know how to do it the way I want.  I've tried making the track more challenging, he's not ready for that.  He looses sharp turns, and at times overshoots milder ones.  He oftens follows the track slightly to the side, as if with air drift.  He will cast about wildly, and usually eventually pick it back up, but loose part of the track while doing so.

Does it help to use the same area for tracking, at least for awhile.  He'll do a fairly good track in the area I use frequently.  In a new area, it's like he forgets what his nose is for.  Is this an obedience problem?  Should I come down on him slightly, or just stick to areas he connects with tracking for now?

About going back to scent pads.  I did try this for a short (very short) time.  He wanted nothing to do with it.  He wants to follow a trail.  Is it better to give in and make a track, or force him to focus on the scent pad first?  I don't believe I ever did enough scent pad work in the beginning.  He has no patience, and I give in..........

Becky 

It sounds like you have no patience.

If he is trying to move on too fast, the bait is not a motivational factor.  How is his food drive?  How much do you feed this dog?  Is he overly fed? 

If the bait is liked and he wants it, normally a dog will not move on until it is finished. 

When we are teaching the dog, we need to be aware of everything.  Wind direction, age, time, humidity, wind speed, etc.  At the beginning stages, we don't want the dog to be overwhelmed with tracks that go into the wind, etc. 

It sounds to me like you really need to go back and teach this dog from the beginning.  I don't know if you need to neccessarily go back to a scent pad, but I would go back to food in almost every step.  Maybe do multiple short tracks with heavy bait.  You need to teach this dog to check footstep by footstep.  He sounds confused or stressed.    Sometimes a stressed dog will go into avoidance and couple that with confusion.  You can have a hectic dog that is rushing through the track.

As for the same tracking grounds, NO!  Don't come down on the dog at all!  Is the dog nervous in new settings?  Does the dog come out of his comfort zone in a new area?    I like to track my dogs in new places all the time.  If I am on my way to a club for training, often I like to just find a new spot that looks inviting.  I have multiple place that are used often, but I like to hit a new place often.  If the dog is unsure in new places and preoccupied with new surroundings, you need to hit new places more often, not only to track, but to play and do obedience.  I would start doing obedience and play at any place I could find.  This is more of a socialization issue than obedience.  You should want a confident and secure dog no matter where you are.