Dog aggression in certain lines? - Page 1

I have posted Garrite's ped on the board before.  She was all and more, than anyone could ask from a GSD.  When my wife took one of her 8wk old puppies to her Schutzhund practice, she was all but embarrassed. Our 8wk old female puppy was trying to attack and actually take hold of every dog and pup there.

She only got worse as she matured. I know all the experts will say, they could have made her different, but I don't believe it. Garrite and our puppy's sire, while not wimps by any means, were really not off the charts "dog aggressive". This said puppy, grew to be our favorite dog. She was a phenomenal dog in every other way.

We figured if we bred her, the pups most likely would not have the "dog aggression" trait.....WRONG.  Every single pup was the same way.

In our yard, the 2 dogs that can be run with any other combination of dogs we have, are Pitbulls.  We have certain combos of different dogs that get along, but also certain dogs of different breeds and mixed breeds, that just despise each other. (much like humans).

In this yard, the Pitbulls are down the rung when "dog aggression" is measured. The top of the list are GSD's down from Garrite. Followed by my Catahoula, one lab we have, and then a couple of old Pits.

While I haven't had contact with owners of all of Garrite's offspring, the ones that I have conversed with, say their dogs turned out with the same over the top "Dog aggression". Has anyone else experienced a dog, or line, that produced this trait? Below is Garrite.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/117736.html

Great question.  We talk about handler aggression and other drives..what about dog aggression in certain lines?   I'd love to see some good responses on this one!

I think dog aggression ( like everything is based in genetics) Be it the dog is nervy, not saying your dog is, or dominant.

People will say their dog became dog aggressive after attacked by another dog. Yes, that is an environemtal experince that triggers the dogs genetic predisopsition. The dog is either scared of another attack ( the fearful ones) or they decide they are not going to take shit from another dog again.

So my answer is yes it is genetic. With that said in my experience, for what it's worth, I have seen a higher level of dog aggression in female GSD's than other breeds.

I should add, and I think many will concure, female dogs often very dog aggressive towards other females.

Females just don't seem to like each other much. Especially when there is a man around.

In GSDs the 13A line is aggressive to the extreme and perhaps even feral.  Probably best not to use it for breeding anymore.

Preston, please describe 13A for me please, my friend and I were discusing this very subject, and it would be very nice to know which dogs fall into line 13A. Thank you in advance, please PM me if you don't want the information public. Thank you!

I would think so - though at the same time I think it might also pass over some generations.  Boban's offspring donet seem overtly aggressive, and the offspring of my friends crazy KNPV Dutchie are really nice and solid - but not aggressive.  I'll be interested to see how their offspring turn out though - especially if there is any kind of linebreeding.

~Cate

Very interesting topic. I've heard Preston mention that line before, but can't remember which dogs are in it.  I, too, would like to know more about it.

Sunsilver, Line 13A is pretty well known, by DDR enthusiasts...I just don't happen to be one of them! I like the DDR lines, don't get me wrong, but I don't know too much about specific lines, like 13A.

Thank goodness we have a very good Search function on this board!  (Thanks, Oli!)

From a previous thread:

Line 13 specifically includes dogs descending down the sire line from Klodo v Boxberg, including such sires as Rolf aus den Urmenkeller, Rigo vd Schiebockmuhle, Fred v Falkenbruch, and their sons and so on...  more recent dogs of note from line 13A include Don and Derrick v Haus Iris, and their descendants in turn.  It is known that there are some longcoat genes within line 13, which is one of the reasons some people advertise "no line 13" , but they were also known to be good working dogs.  Hope this helps.

Link: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/112501.html#112528

There was also a thread that talked about Boban vom grauen Monstab, who is extremely HANDLER aggressive being from this line:  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/77690.html#78871

"However, as John knows there is already SO much of this line 13a (to Alf Körnersee, etc) around that we would not be losing anything to pass him over, and if the brother is also available, there would be another option."