Where are we going with PSA going? - Page 1

PSA Enthusiasts, just curious, what are you expecting from your sport.  I am more of a traditionalist but often think outside of the box.  Just curious, what does your sport tell you about your dog? Do you see limitations to your sport?  What litimations have you seen in other sports.  Or is it a personality thing?

Kyle

Hi Kyle,

Crap I just wrote a big long thing and it didn't go through...here's the abbrevaited version.

For me It's a sport just like any other.  I enjoy learning about all different types of training and doing different things...with PSA threre is a greater variety.  I enjoy SchH and will never leave the sport all together...but I admit, the structured routine was getting to me.

IMO there is a greater amount of people with "macho" intent in PSA, but I have found a nice group to train with who are more interested in training than testing and are not puffy chested about how tough their dogs are.

I believe you do need a tougher dog to do PSA than is normally seen in SchH, however I believe it takes a more time, effort and dedication to train evenly in all three phases to title in SchH.

I am not interested in creating a dog that expects "danger" around every corner, nor do I NEED a PPD...I enjoy it for sport, with a sound social dog, who has an incredible ability to read people and situations correctly.  I personally would not do it with just any dog, but Andy was a police dog and has had a great deal of training on bitesuits and hidden sleeves before I got him, and the transition to the equipement from SchH was fairly easy.

I started because I had a huge desire to see this side of my dog, he's had all this bite training that I wasn't taking advantage of and I have the type of dog I wonder If I'll ever have or see again.

I'd also like to comment on some myths....SchH folks say that working on a SchH dog on a bitesuit will ruin a dogs grip.  Totally false in my experience.  A genetic grip is a genetic grip, PSA judges want to see a full grip just as much as SchH judges.   Actually the dog must try harder to get a full grip on a bitesuit as opposed to a v shaped SchH sleeve, so I think It might even improve the grip.

PSA folks critisize SchH becaue many dogs are equipment fixed.  This is amusing...I've seen young PSA dogs just as equipment fixed on the bitesuit as SchH dogs on the sleeve.

I have learned a great deal from both sports and am greatful to have a dog I could experience both with. I do like some things about each that IMO are better than the other...I like the variety of situations in PSA but from what I've seen I think SchH bitework/grip foundation training is certainly much better than what I've seen in protection sports (granted my experienced is limited).  IMO I believe in SchH, young dogs are worked in prey longer because there is not such a need to rush into civil and defense like there is with protection sports.  JMO.

Regards,

Melanie

I'm not going anywhere in PSA. As most people know, I am the quintessential traditionalist, and all my time has to be directed at titling my dogs in SchH sport and preparing for the ring.  For me it would be a complete waste of time.

It does look like fun for some people though, especially those with breeds not lending themselves to Schutzhund. I noticed a lot of American Bull Dogs at the sessions I attended, and I have to say the people I met were VERY nice folks... completely different crowd than what we normally find at many SchH clubs in this part of the country.

SS

SS...PSA titles are most repented by the traditional SCHh breeds, with an occasional Pit Bull or "other".  Rarely has an AB gone beyond a TC (BH), though you see some at clubs.  I pulled this off of a recent trial results. This is typical..

PSA Level 2 ,  5 dogs entered, None passed
Awards for the Overall 2 day Performances:

High Obedience: Jerry Bradshaw & Rocky with 97.5 points.
High Protection: Auburn Wise and Fritz with 157.5 points
High in Trial: Jerry Bradshaw & Rocky with 246.5 points
High owner Trained: Jerry Bradshaw & Rocky with 246.5 points


Titles Awarded:

Darryl Richey & Gabe (Pit Bull) ....PSA TC and PSA 1 (220 P)
Jerry Bradshaw & Rocky (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (246.5 P)
Laura Tapp & Major (Malinois) PSA TC
Eddie Donovan & Austin (Malinois) PSATC and PSA 1 (232 P)
Jerry Bradshaw & Ricardo (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (244 WD)
Ricky Gallaway & Rex (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (241 WD)
Sidney Dozier & Berry (Dutch Shepherd) PSA TC and PSA 1 (236 P)
Paul Goldberg & Isaac (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (217.5 P)
Robert Halal & Star (Giant Schnauzer) PSA TC & PSA 1 (217.5 P)
Dominick Donovan & Tiger (Donovan Pincher) PSA TC
Sandra Bradshaw & Hycko (Malinois) PSA TC
Sandra Bradshaw & Arizona (Dutch Shepherd) PSA TC
John Morris & TJ (Malinois) PSA TC and PDA 1 (240.5 WD)

Sunday's Results:
Greg Williams & Rusty (Pit Bull) PSA TC and PSA 1 (223 P)
Auburn Wise & Fritz (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (245 WD)
Rick Furrow & Racky (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (235 P)

Darryl Richey & Gabe (Pit Bull) ....PSA TC and PSA 1 (220 P)
Jerry Bradshaw & Rocky (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (246.5 P)
Laura Tapp & Major (Malinois) PSA TC
Eddie Donovan & Austin (Malinois) PSATC and PSA 1 (232 P)
Jerry Bradshaw & Ricardo (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (244 WD)
Ricky Gallaway & Rex (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (241 WD)
Sidney Dozier & Berry (Dutch Shepherd) PSA TC and PSA 1 (236 P)
Paul Goldberg & Isaac (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (217.5 P)
Robert Halal & Star (Giant Schnauzer) PSA TC & PSA 1 (217.5 P)
Dominick Donovan & Tiger (Donovan Pincher) PSA TC
Sandra Bradshaw & Hycko (Malinois) PSA TC
Sandra Bradshaw & Arizona (Dutch Shepherd) PSA TC
John Morris & TJ (Malinois) PSA TC and PDA 1 (240.5 WD)

Sunday's Results:
Greg Williams & Rusty (Pit Bull) PSA TC and PSA 1 (223 P)
Auburn Wise & Fritz (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (245 WD)
Rick Furrow & Racky (Malinois) PSA TC and PSA 1 (235 P)

Interesting. One of these days maybe I'll get to a PSA event. Probably only if its held in my neighborhood though. No time for much these days as I am trying to title/survey 4 dogs this year, compete in shows & prepare one for the Nationals in Nov.

Time to go tracking now while the weather is nice.

SS

PSA is growing so that is a good thing.

My first trial back in 2002, the scoring was tougher. My 90 in OB would be a 95-100 today. It had to be done or people flat would not pass and the sport would not have grown.

I wil give an example. The year after, I had not trained in 7 months. I wasn't even considering trialing but someone paid the trail fee for me without me knowing, then said, "You gotta trial now, I paid for you." So I just went out to goof around.

We were not anywhere near what we were in 02. She picked up a ball in the OB, and transfered a bite in on one of the scenarios and my score was 20 points higher than in 02.

Anyway, most of the changes have watered it down a bit. But it has been necessary for the sport to grow.

I didn't like them removing the level 1 open. I think if a dog is titled in another sport, it should not go against dogs who have never titled before, but then again many of the SCh dogs were having trouble so whatever.

I like the fact you are seeing more ring dogs cross over. I think This is going to be a good thing and change the dynamic of the sport considerably. many of the consistant PSA performers are going to be for a surprise. On this note I sure hope they make a point of training decoys more on leg bites. If ring dogs get hurt, they won't play and the sport will not grow. I think this should be one fo the highest priorites right now.

For awhile they were talking about dong something with a sleeve to encourage the Sch people to cross over. I am very against that. There is no place for a sleeve in PSA in my opinion.

Shelly touches on something I think is important. The people in the sport are very laid back, fun, and encouraging. I go to Sch events and people don't even talk to each other.

All in all I love the sport and think it is the best test of the all around temperment and and strength of a dog we have here in the US. I am not disrespecting any of the other sports but PSA encompasses courage, environmental stability, and puts a god deal of stress on both dog and handler. It would be cool to see some sort of search but I don't think that is really fees able and some competitors definatley have control issues which would lead to liability but I would really like to see that.

Anxiously looking forward to gettin back in the game. Won't be till next season though. Maybe we can get a PDC this year well have to see.

Uglydog, the trial results you have posted are very old, I'm not sure where they were pulled from.  I only know this because Darryl Richey's Pit, Gabe, passed away in 2004.

:)

John Morris has been gone since '05 too.

Even with the new rules and easier judging, more dogs don't pass than do. Truly a harder test on the dog than other sports. I expect to get environmentally sound dogs that can handle more pressure and must be clearer in the head, under allot of control. What they ask of these dogs is almost too much. Pretty much thay have to read your mind and listen to the handler before letting all of that drive push them over  the edge. When you watch a trial it loosk as though the decoys and judges are trying to fail the dogs. They add more pressure where in most sports the decoys work with the dog. What other sport will you be asked to perform something you have never trained for? Your dog has to trust you and listen intently to what you are asking of him. It's the closest thing to real I know of. KNPV is awesome but they know what they are up against when they walk on that field. KNPV dogs are tough because those decoys don't absorb any of the impact. KNPV dogs take a real physical beating where as I believe the PSA dogs take a mental one.

I don't call throwing a milk jug full of pebbles at the dog "tough."  It was hard to keep a straight face for that "test." But it was amazing how many dogs went into avoidance.

SS