Beginning A Puppy In Protection. - Page 1

When, to you, is a good time to begin adding the defense factor into their protection? When do you think a "mature age" is for most dogs? Although all puppies develop at different levels.

Just because a dog is "slower maturing" and still acts very childish at an older age, even during protection, do you think they are generally lower drive and therefore not quite as good at what they do, compared to another puppy, who is a little fireball? Or do you think they can redeem themselves when they are mature enough to handle the pressure?

Thank you, I so love hearing everyone's opinions!

-Emily.

 I would NOT be adding defense work in any pup. As Bernhard Flinks says, one can add or bring out defense in the last few seconds or minutes of a dogs' life. Why rush. As a pup the dog should be enjoying himself, and one should be working to get enthusiasm, good full grips etc. Dogs mature completely differently. So it is not a good thing to think that by such and such an age you are going to do x,y or z. It is up to you to know your dog and understand when is the right time to bring such work to the fore. If done well, there are many things that can be done early on to prepare a young dog for defense work. It should actually almost be a seemless process. And there are dogs with whom one will never be able to work in defense as there are dogs who will be so defensive. The best option is to understand what is what and try to balance those drives.

Good luck.

I like what Hodie has to say. The words working a puppy in defense should not happen, I would make sure my dog is biting tip top in prey before jumping to defense work but thats just me.  Unless to you a puppy means a couple of years old.  When a dog is being worked the helper should be trying to balance the dogs drives out.  This also depends on what the dog is being trained/used for. 

And if the dog is slow maturing let him/her grow up no need for a rush, if you have no time to wait look to different bloodlines.

Yes, for sure they can catch up to the "firecracker" as they mature.  Most likely your patience will be rewarded.

It really depends on the dog.  I generally don't like to put young dogs into defense until they are around 12 to15 months, some dogs do mature faster and can handle more pressure a little earlier.  I wait until the dog is biting really well in prey and is clear headed with a full, hard, calm grip.  Many GSD's are slow to mature compared to other breeds, you just need to be patient.  You also need to be careful when comparing puppies or young dogs, I have seen situations where handlers and decoys jump ahead with a precocious young dog because it is so high in drive or just a defensive dog.  These dogs may seem like they can handle a lot of pressure at first, but it can create a poor foundation in training which shows up later on.

You can't do any harm to a young dog by working it in prey.  Just wait and don't rush.  Often times, you will see a change in the dogs bitework as he becomes more mature, self confident and self assured. 

These dogs may seem like they can handle a lot of pressure at first, but it can create a poor foundation in training which shows up later on. (slamdunc)

i like what a lot of what you all say about let puppy be a puppy until they are 1 1/2 -2 yrs  but they are a lot of dogs out there with titles at 18 -24 mos old & you cant teach defense in 2-3 week so when do you start

i start putting a little pressure on my dogs at about 6mos little by little  

Tophat, I don't start putting most young dogs into defense until about 12 to 15 months.  People do start earlier, and depending on the dog I might start a little earlier with a very confident, clear headed young dog.  There really isn't much need to start too young and you do have to be careful when pushing young dogs into defense.  It can be done little by little,. but I prefer to get young dogs used to the decoy.  I will work puppies on the ground and even wrestle with them while they are on the bite tug or rag. This is done while maintaining the dogs grip and watching it's body language.  I want the young dogs to learn to dominate the helper while not feeling too much mental pressure.  You can actually work dogs and title them almost completely in prey.  Talking strictly about schutzhund, high drive prey orientated dogs can easily be titled and can score very high in protection.  These dogs don't view the decoy the as a 'real" threat, therefore they often have little mental conflict with the decoy.  This enables them to be clear headed and bite with full hard grips. 

Now, I personally like a more serious dog in protection work.  I like a dog with a "civil" edge that  bites the sleeve because it is between him and the helper, and would easily take a bare arm.  These dogs can be worked in defense and have a very nice, serious hold and bark.  These dogs are very impressive to work and to watch at trials.  There comes a point in training when the dog should learn that the helper is not his friend and can be a dangerous adversary.  Again, I wait until the dog has a solid foundation, clear headed with full calm (hopefully hard) grips before I start this.  I have seen some exceptional young dogs, high drive with excellent grips  get put into defense at an early age; 6 to 8 months.  These dogs bite like aligators so the handler and decoy decide to put the dog on a hard  sleeve and begin trial routine work.   A year down the road these dogs are chewing on the sleeve and have developed grip problems.  There are some high end working dogs that can handle this and don't ever have a problem, but these dogs are rare and with very experienced handlers and decoys.  I have seen this same issue with both GSD's and Malinois. 

When I decoy for our dept's k-9's they are put into defense.  These dogs quickly learn that the decoy/helper is not a nice guy, he is very dangerous and the dog must react appropriately.  It is not acceptable for these dogs to be sleeve orientated, they must be geared towards the man and not the equipment. 

Jim

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