question about akc obedience - Page 1

I showed by bitch in akc obedience and lost 7 pionts for crowding. She ended up with a 193. Can anyone provide insight into the difference in akc healing and schutzhund healing?

Thanks

One requires a band-aid, and the other doesn't...

Sorry, couldn't resist!...it's something of a pet peeve of mine, right up there with our favorite breed being spelled 'shepard'.  It's spelled HEELING, as in the part of your body attached to the rear of your foot.

I need to know more. What exactly was your bitch doing that made the judge dock you points? Was she sticking so close to you that she was touching you? Was she bouncing up and down, glued to your side, because you train with her favorite toy in your hand? Or did you bump into her on the corners, because she wasn't paying attention?

I seem to recall hearing there is very little difference between AKC and Schutzhund obedience. though I can't speak from personal experience.

The dog should not touch you at all in AKC. Each time your hand brushes her even slightly (if you swing your arms, which I would recommend against) , or she bumps your leg, you can be deducted as much as 3 points, depending the situation and your judge.

Schutzhund is much more forgiving of a dog that does that rather obnoxious, nearly diagnonal heeling, although it really isn't correct in either event.

In AKC trials you and the dog may not touch each other or you'll have points deducted. 

In Schutzhund heeling it's not uncommon to have the dog repeatedly making body contact with the handler. That's a no-no in AKC.  The idea of heeling is the dog at your side out of your way and not interfering with your walk.  In Schutzhund you see the crowding and bumping and also see the dog not at your side but curled around in front of the handler while walking.

Good for you, though, for showing your Sch dog in AKC and showing what stable. wonderful, HAPPY dogs Schutzhund trained dogs are.  193 is a fantastic score!  Congratulations!

There is a diiference between the two - not so much in the precision that is expected from the dogs but more the way the perform the movements. Most of the AKC judges look for a smooth consistant performance (think a Golden...). A number of them don't care for the "drivy" type of foosing that ScH obd has ... I have encountered judges that , after doing the test, will ask if my dog has ScH training. One judge actually told me that he/she marked harder on dogs that have ScH training, the assumption being that they are more highly trained and they expect a better performance.  I do AKC obed and rally with my dogs, in addition to ScH. Personally I've found that they do well in AKC because of their foundation from ScH.  But they can't bump or crowd or touch in AKC....

That is a fantastic score! Congratulations!

Good advice, AKC rules say dog may not touch handler when heeling.  The dog's shoulder is to be at the same level as the handler's knee. Otherwise it will also lose points for forging or lagging. You can order all the AKC OB rules from their web site - http://akc.org

I talked with an AKC judge after a show about the points I lost.  She called it "the Shepherd bump," as she felt some of the best obedience GSDs did it.  Her advice was to keep working and try to find that balance between an overly-drivey heel and a robotic heel.  She said she hits the robotic dogs much harder for a lack of enthusiasm or a lag than she will the drivier dogs that are really working hard to please their handler and bump occasionally.  This is just going to vary from judge to judge as to their preferences.  Personally, I'll take a couple bumps to keep the focus and overall performance higher. 

Great score & keep up the good work! 

Jennifer

A 193 is a really good score . A top score. They have to find something wrong. I would not worry about changing anything if I received a 193. Congrats! You did great.

Congratulations on such a score-I certainly wouldn't hang my head over such! Keep up the good work! Two more trials with a score like that and you'll have your CD title! :o))

Hm. Its been my understanding that there is a difference in heeling position in SchH versus AKC obedience. Where the AKC obedience people expect the whole head-shoulder/knee thing with no touching between handler and dog, SchH expects the dog to be a little more forward in position relative to the handler so that the dog CAN look up at you better. Thus a dog already trained/titled in SchH is going to be in a body position where inevitably, you will bump with a knee or hip into the dog from time to time. The SchH dog would have to be, in some regard, reconditioned to not crowd and touch so much if its going to do serious AKC obedience showing. This 'bumping' is not something that should be counted as such a horrid mistake in my opinion (there's far worse that goes on in the AKC ring than occassional bumping, but that's a can of worms in of itself), but rules are rules I guess. If you're gonna show under the AKC, then you have to abide by their rules and politics.

Keep up the good work and best wishes with future showing!

A 193 is indeed an excellent score for a beginner. Dakota sounds like a perfectionist, (Like me! ;) )and I applaud you for it! When you get to higher levels, especially if you want to go for an OTCH, those extra 7 points will mean a lot more! You can absolutely teach your dog to heel in drive without touching you, it just takes a lot of time, patience, and practice. Best of luck to you.

I disagree katjo. It is completely possible, albeit difficult, to teach a dog to look up at you with their shoulder at your knee. It is very time consuming to teach the dog to keep their rear in, which is why almost no one does it. But it is totally possible. then again, I will not permit my SchH dog to bump me either, it's a pet peeve of mine.  I feel a dog should work with you, not against you by constantly impeding your movement.