"Breed Worthy," - Page 1

To you, what is a "breed worthy" german shepherd? Not who's best, but just a dog that deserves to contribute to the GSD.

--A working line with not-so-great conformation, but is an absolutely stunning worker with sch 3, or ring 3, etc, but would most likely score a kkl 2.

--A dog who is kkl 1 and sch 3 with amazing conformation, but is just an okay worker.

Just kind of like that, I would like to get to know some views besides my own. Thank you.

-Emily.

2 me health  intelegence and working ability then conformation but health comes 1st.

dont get me wrong i love a nice lookin gsd. 

I don't care for extremes on either side of the fence.  I like a V rated working line dog as much as I like a showline dog with V rated protection. 

Titles are not the be all and end all in my book either, depending on the situation. There are many outstanding police dogs, military dogs, SAR dogs, etc., that in my opinion also have a place in the gene pool. If my Aila had better hips, I would've happily bred her with just her UD and her PP work. (although let me just say that damn UD was a crapton harder than my other dog's SchH1)

The two types you listed would not be my ideal dog, I'm very much a fan of balance. It's a slippery slope, however- that "okay" worker, with better training, could've been a great worker. Structure is what it is. It would also depend on the structural faults of the given dog. Short croup, no big deal in my book if the dog works like a beast.  An overly long, weak back- no way.

You're absolutely right, real dog,

sometimes it's the person at the other end of the leash that can make the difference in
the dogs drive and all round confidence.

  Hell, just having complete control can make an iffy dog look great!

Chances are one can also make a great dog look shitty!

I would choose the kkl2 dog because I feel working ability must always be preserved in our breed and is more important than the difference in conformation between kkl1 &2.  Personally, the dogs in question would have to be exceptional for me to buy pups from non-breed surveyed stock.  

Titles are not the end all and neither is A KKl or 2..     Schutzhund is a sport and it has its great results but a title nor a breed survey doesnt make a good dog worthy and doesnt mean all of them are worthy to produce good litters...Only some dogs in some or any litter  . enters in the sport   the rest of the litter may be much better in work or strong backs and that is important....dogs from any German bloodline that has entered schutzhund,,ring or ppd or any know quality and has a good candidate to be bred includes first good health that can be traced...and ofa and sv certified hips on both sire and dam....working ability is next and that can be evaluated by any trainer of years of long standing.....personality and temperament are 3rd in line .

Confirmation is to be in line with the sturdy back and topline and bone density....but beauty is not the main goal but has to be a balance of all of these traits.   and you do not get that on a schutzhund field....Titles are not meant to be a breeding ground...

http://home.flash.net/~astroman/gsdinfo.html   Schutzhund Myth   and a lot of other good reads

Yeah, you are right, to hell with titles, trials and breed surveys - everyone should judge for themselves the breed worthiness of their own stock - no kennel blindness at all - oh wait - isn't that how we ended up with that marvelous working dog called the American Show Shepherd?

Emily:  Which of the two dogs would you choose and why?

There are plenty of people who only breed surveyed stock and are kennel blind, too, sue.  I am certainly not advocating the system be thrown away, I was simply pointing out there are some exceptions. 

What about all the "creative measuring" done during breed surveys and "bought titles"? Are those dog worthy because they have that blue piece of paper? Are they more worthy than an outstanding police dog who has no title?  I went to the NASS last year, and could count on one hand the males I would breed to.

Forgive me, I assumed this thread was to compare opinions, not tear them apart. The SchH title is not what makes my dog breedworthy, it meres illustrates a fraction of her, and any other dogs', ability. I know of a local litter from an untitled Kevin daughter and an untitled police K9. And you know what? I have every confidence they will be very nice dogs with more backbone than some titled breedings. Would I do it? No. Is there merit in it being done? In my eyes, yes.

There are intelligent breeders and ignorant breeders on both sides of this issue. Shall we discuss it like the intelligent kind?