French Ring And Schutzhund. - Page 1

I've been attending a schutzhund club, I am currently a member, but i've also been visiting a french ring club nearby. My male, is a very high drive dog, almost none to minimum food drive which makes tracking extremely difficult. I've always had the thought in the back of my mind; perhaps he would make a better ring dog?

After going to the ring club last weekend, I just asked if they could put him on a suit and see what happens. They came out with the leg sleeve, he took to it immediately, and was more fired up than with an ordinary schutzhund sleeve.

I'm still very apprehensive to leave the sport completely, he does have his BH and AD, and we wanted to get his sch 1 this spring. But with his little tracking drive, it seems so much farther than it had before.

Is anyone experienced enough to point out differences, and why I should/should not have my male become a ring dog?

Thanks,

Emily.

German Shepherds don't do well in sports other than Schutzund as a rule, Sch was invented and designed for these dogs and their temperments.

Ring is for Mals, again designed for them, but there is nothing wrong in just doing it for fun.

If he has great courage and off the wall prey drive why not go for it?

if you want to get a breed survey on your dog you would have to have a schutzhund title, or HGH.  if not, then you do what you want.  any training is better than no training. 

about tracking, if his food drive is that low, have you tried tracking for toys, or something else that he does like?   i have thought about teaching my male to track for the decoy, since he loves to play with them.

john

4 x BSP superstar Olex de Valsory's mother was french ring.

I know that sch is designed for GSDs, and french ring for mals and dutchies. He's kind of bulky, and is not nearly as well built for it. But he does have the drive to do it. It seems alot more fun to me, as well.

John, i'll try that out this weekend. Maybe if we could start over with the toy, he might learn to like tracking.

Emily.

when you go to switch him from food to toy, keep the track short , 10 paces or so, then he finds a toy.   that way he only has to go a short way to find a  reward.   when he finds it, play with him, dont make him lay on it like an article.  over time he will learn to search more for the toy.  basically you are replacing food for toys.  i have seen a few people use this very well.

john

I always tell people to have clear and realistic goals for your dog. Don't expect to go to the nationals training in two different sports unless maybe your Mike Ellis or Ivan but there is no reason you cannot do both if you are realisitic in your goals.

 In my experience, if a dog gets to a ring 3, they can convert to just about any other sport. If you want the higher levels of ring sport and win you would HAVE to do the ring first. (IMHO) unless again you are Mike Ellis or Ivan. I have done ring, PSA, and been around enough SCH guys to know a little. My last dog was titled in three different sports.

If you do both, there has to be a method to the madness. I am planning on ring and PSA with my dog. I would train different aspects of both sports at the same time. I would teach a bark and hold with the SCH guys and work grip on the sleeve. Ring sport does not judge grip so many ring sport trainers may be lacking in that area.

So train the B & H with the SCh guys cuz you need that for a 1 in addition you need to run the pattern. Ring sport does not require a pattern, just that they find the decoy. You don't need a B&H until a ring 2 (big jump between 1 and 2 that many don't make) I would train the retrieve with the SCH group with the dumbells. it would be easier to transition to any of the ring objects. I would do the jumps with the ring people and not do the a-frame until I am done with ring sport. I would train the position changes with the ring people.  The control and fast outs in ring sport should help you in SCH. You have to be careful though because I have seen ring trainers really squash their dogs to get that control early.  

I don't think I am explaining this well, I feel like I am all over the place but it is hard to explain.

I think your biggest hurdle is getting the trainers for the different groups to work together. Trainers get focused on what works for them and don't like to go outside their comfort zone. You will find one or the other saying "WE can't do it that way cuz it will cause this or that problem. Everytime I have heard someone say that it is BS. They say it because they don't know how  and never tried, so they make up some reason to persuade you not to. If you think outside the box and take a little from each sport and trainer, there is no reason someone cannot do multiple sports. You just need the training decoys/directors willing to work with you.

This is the main reason I am indipendent or "free-lance". I do multiple sports and have trained with alot of different trainers. I have to pick and choose who I do what with. I know trainer A is good with young dogs and grip. I know trainer B is good with aggression, I know trainer C is good fast suit/ stickwork and trainer D is familiar with the environmental distractions of PSA. Etc etc

I hope I helped more than confused you. If you have specific questions, I might be able to explain it better.

Good luck in whatever you chose do. Just have fun

"almost none to minimum food drive which makes tracking extremely difficult."

He has to eat sometime. Only feed him on the track.     Get somebody to help you with tracking if you aren't already. If he's hungry enough he will track. How long have you been tracking him? A few times, a dozen or more?

My opinion is that the wall jump and the long jump is a big hurdle for the GSD being larger that the Mal or Dutch. Go with the smaller sized agile faster German Shepherds and you could competed seriously buy honestly like it was said earlier French Ring was designed for the Mal. Bulky dogs as you said yours was are not for ring. Also as was said earlier,  you can't get him/her breed surveyed with a ring title.

I assume by your ealier posts that this is your dog... www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/514278.html

you can work him in both sports . The dogs  know the difference . One of my home bred dogs went from Schutzhund into ringsport    the owner( a newby in the sport )  was told GSD's are not for Ring .  she just enjoyed working him and in their first ring competition she became the 1998 North American Brevet Ringsport Champion  :) He was SchH3 , HIC and drugtrained also . To top it all of he was primarly show line breeding.

Emily  shoot for your goals , if your dog has the stuff  and you have the dedication why not go for it :))

 here is another dual sport dog     go to outkastcastschutzhundclub.com  Olesko  and Daniela  a great team  and I am proud of them !! Olesko is SchH3 ,IPO3 Fh1 Fh2 ,Brevet ,Ring1  CD , KKL1 .  and a world Ring championship competitor !!!! 

a dog IMO showline orientated breeding programs should not overlook !!

Pia