Poultry Bones - Page 1

Okay, folks, I just don't understand this. My whole life, I've heard 'don't let your dogs or cats eat chicken bones or bird bones! They're dangerous!'  When I was in my teens, I had this reinforced when we nearly lost our cat because he liked to catch his breakfast on the wing. A bird bone punctured his bowel. He survived with the help of surgery and heavy-duty antibiotics.

Now, suddenly, everyone is feeding their GSD's raw chicken, and sometimes turkey! Backs, necks, legs, wings, are being given to the dogs, often from a very early age.

I've worked a lot with bones. I took a graduate level course in faunal archaeo-osteology, which looked at the way native North Americans used animal bones for food, decoration and tools. Bird bones are hollow inside. They are easy to crush and splinter. When you break them, you get sharp edges. They make great awls and needles for puncturing leather. Might they not also puncture a dog's gut?

Cooking chicken softens the bones, especially if they come from a young bird, and most of our commercial poultry is young. An adult  human can easily crush the end of one of these cooked bones with his/her teeth. A dog has very strong digestive acids in its stomach, and I imagine they might even be able to dissolve such a soft bone. So, why, then, are RAW bones considered safe, and COOKED bones considered dangerous?

Help me out here, please. This just does NOT MAKE SENSE!  I'm trained in science, and want to hear some LOGICAL answers!

raw bones are safe, cooked bones are brittle and can cause problems when chewed (broken) and swallowed.  Raw bones are not brittle and will crush safely while being chewed.  The only problem I am aware of is with young puppies that can't digest the bones adequately, they can become impacted in the gut and be a problem.  But adults should be able to chew/swallow and digest raw bones without a problem.  Cooked bones are dangerous.

m

Logical?

Take this:
What do you think Wulfs eat in forest? Or would they take the bones when they catch an animal?:)

I would say - Dont let your dog eat the commercial dry food - no matter which brand it is, how expensive it is and what the manufacturer tells about how good and safe and clean and fully meat its dry food is:))))

eichenluft is right...personaly i remove the really sharp ones. (but  im a stesshead)

eichenluft is right...personaly i remove the really sharp ones. (but  im a stesshead)

So, those of you who feed raw: what comes out the other end? Bone splinters? Crushed bones? Or are they fully dissolved by the stomach acids? Come on, I genuinely want to know here, and I'm not getting much in the way of answers.

Admirable, dogs have not been wolves for many thousands of years. Their teeth have changed considerably since being domesticated. I don't believe they can chew bones as effectively as a wolf can. You don't believe me? Here are photos of a wolf skull next to a German Sheperd skull. Old Lobo has about twice as much ivory, and there are no gaps in his dentition. Unfortunately, the German Shepherd skull shown has a poor bite, looks like a wry bite.  But look at the big gaps between ALL of its teeth. Look at how much stronger the wolf's zygomatic arch (the bony bar below the eye socket) is, to reinforce the skull and give it more chewing power. Look at how much larger the big canine teeth are, and how much deeper and more solid the jaws are. 

Imagine how much greater these differences would be in one of our small breeds, or a short-faced breed like a bulldog or a peke.  You expect THEM to cope with a raw diet, complete with bones? I wouldn't! They no longer have the right equipment.

Top: Grey Wolf

Bottom German Shepherd

ah but the wolf is not eating birds for the most part - they eat large mammals, weight-bearing bones being cracked and the marrow chewed out - they don't normally EAT the bones of deer, elk, or other large mammals.  When you give your GSD a marrow bone, does he EAT the bone?  I don't think so - Birds are not in the "diet plan" of wolves except perhaps for an occasional snack.  If they did catch a bird, I'll bet they would eat the entire animal save feathers.  But when they eat a deer, they leave the bones behind.  Mucho differenco.  Bottom line is, feeding raw poultry bones is safe for dogs to eat, chew and digest/pass through their system.

molly

"Bottom line is, feeding raw poultry bones is safe for dogs to eat, chew and digest/pass through their system."
 

SHOW ME THE PROOF!!  I'm sure you've all done that experiment in school where you stick a straw into a potato. A hollow bird bone is like a straw, and has considerable penetrating power. How is it safe for a dog to swallow something like this?

Molly, I've heard wolves do eat some of the smaller bones, but they eat hide along with them, and that supposedly protects them from the sharp edges of the bones.

I have a 50-55 lb GSD x chow mix, looks mostly GSD.  I feed him raw and I cannot say enough good things about it.  Sunsilver, you asked how the poops look on exit.  If Renji has had a bony meal, they'll come out a little powdery- not a single shard amongst the poop and the poops fall apart easily.  If he's had a proper meat/bone ratio (he needs a little more meat than normal), his poops come out wonderful.  Brown, not squishy at all, very firm without being hard, they're small, and they look easily passed.  Certainly easier than mine seem to do some days (sorry, TMI).  As to the hardness, sometimes I give him frozen chicken quarters because he crunches them up TOO quickly.  This makes him spend time chewing and working on it.  No problems.  He also has had pork necks, turkey necks and backs and wings, (won't give turkey legs) chicken backs and necks, even a catfish head.  Want to talk about a tough thing to eat?  He spent more time crunching a darn fish head from a 16" or so catfish than he does on a chunky chicken quarter.  And man, talk about earth-shattering crunches!  He usually gets chicken quarters, pork necks, beef heart, then I made a blend of beef kidneys, turkey livers, canned mackerel, and seafood medley and froze that to make it more palatable; that is fed in broken-off chunks.  He'll get egg usually without the shell because he gets plenty of bone, but I'll give him the shell if he has a really meaty portion.  So far, so good!

This is my first dog I am feeding raw but man, the results are just amazing.  I know there are risks, but there are risks with eating kibble (recalls, bad batches, sudden formula changes, choking), and really there are risks with eating in general.  I prefer him to have the quality of good food, an enjoyable mealtime (it's more fun to chew and crunch than it is to vacuum up round, dry bits of food), and the health and vigor of raw than feed him kibble.  Not that we haven't had good results on grain-free kibble, but this is best for us, IMO!

Here is a lady who has fed thousands upon thousands of pounds of raw meat to her many dogs over the years, with no ill effects thus far.  In addition to GSDs, she has a corgi, a cocker, and a Chinese crested, all of which are on raw.

www.rawdogranch.com/

Finally, if you are worried about jaw strength, look at ferrets.  They can crunch up rabbits and rodents with the best of them!  It's all about matching the food to the animal.  I would not toss a deer leg to my dog for anything but recreational chewing, but soft bones like necks, ribs, backs, and the weight-bearing bones of smaller animals (chickens) are fair game.  Your mileage may vary!  You are asking very good questions, questions that anyone who feeds raw should think about.  This is one diet one must continually read up and research, have variety, be open to new ideas, and pay close attention to the pets being fed.  Once the rules of raw feeding are learned, playing the game is not hard at all.  There are a few ways of doing raw such as BARF, prey-model, you can feed intact bones or you can grind them (which would assuage your fears of bone issues), some people mix kibble with it, but the bottom line is you have to read your dog- your dog will tell you whether the diet is right or not.

FINALLY! Some hard-core FACTS!  Now, the scientist in me is happier! But I still think that if a dog can digest raw chicken bones, then cooked ones should not be a problem either. Next time you have chicken, try chewing the end of one of the bones. Then, just imagine how much more damage a dog's teeth would do to that bone.

When I was on a long walk one day, my dog picked up and ate a discarded chicken wing someone had thrown away. The next day she was acting really funny, like she was in pain. I took her to the vet, and told him about the bone. He did an x-ray. There was NO SIGN of the bone. It had completely dissolved. He did find that she had very bad arthritis in her spine, and that, plus the long walk, was why she was in pain.

I really wish someone would take this issue seriously enough to do a controlled scientific study. Then skeptics like me would have something solid to read instead of dog owners saying "it's safe...trust me!"

Thank you very much, Auralythic!